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MV's & Tax Discs


snowtracdave

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No you can't if you use it on the road for Non-Agricultral use.. http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2006/06/08/91743/red-or-dead-your-red-diesel-questions-answered.html

 

 

Going into the Great Dorset Steam Fair vehicles were being checked by Customs & Excise for red diesel. I wasn't stopped as I think the Hornet looked too much of a challenge.

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Yes , I've heard some stories of checks being made on vintage tractors whilst on display at a show and use of red diesel not being permitted because that doesn't actually constitute agricultural use . Am I right in thinking that there are restrictions on the distance you can travel if you're taxed agricultural ?

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Yes , I've heard some stories of checks being made on vintage tractors whilst on display at a show and use of red diesel not being permitted because that doesn't actually constitute agricultural use . Am I right in thinking that there are restrictions on the distance you can travel if you're taxed agricultural ?

 

 

I was talking to a chap the other week, he restores tractors & told me it's illegal to use red diesel in them as they are no longer used for agricultural use & that it's not uncommon for tanks to be dipped at shows..

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Can you use red diesel if you only use the vehicle off road like at shows etc and not on the road at all ?.

 

 

According to the chap I was speaking to, NO only if it's being used for agricultural use, that's why they are visiting so many shows to dip the tanks..

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Playing devils advocate here for a moment - what about if you had the scenario where a garage cocked up the deliveries and had petrol pumped into the red diesel storage tanks. An MV owner then took the contaminated fuel off the garages hands and ran it in his vehicle for a show where the C&E people dipped the tank.

 

Would he get nicked???

 

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Playing devils advocate here for a moment - what about if you had the scenario where a garage hened up the deliveries and had petrol pumped into the red diesel storage tanks. An MV owner then took the contaminated fuel off the garages hands and ran it in his vehicle for a show where the C&E people dipped the tank.

 

Would he get nicked???

 

 

 

Your talking about contaminated fuel?? legally they have to it disposed by a licenced contractor.. not give it away to MV owners :whistle:

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Playing devils advocate here for a moment - what about if you had the scenario where a garage hened up the deliveries and had petrol pumped into the red diesel storage tanks. An MV owner then took the contaminated fuel off the garages hands and ran it in his vehicle for a show where the C&E people dipped the tank.

 

Would he get nicked???

 

 

 

Be a close call seeing as the VAT has already been paid at the pump and no proof of where the contam came from or if you had mixed it yourself.

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That's more or less what I had in mind Mark - which leads nicely to the follow-on question:

 

If you have an arrangement with a couple of places to take any contam - do you get anu sort of signed-off paperwork that could be presented as proof that , effectively, the correct duty has been paid???

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Neil,

I had about 1000 litres of contaminated fuel from an accident recovery place, I turned up with my own barrels and emptied theirs. No money or paperwork changed hands. I think it would be like that anywhere you go.

 

Chris

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Yes but when did you last see a garage where you could be given the opportunity to accidentally fill up with red diesel? Given that this salvaged contaminated fuel comes from garages who have contracts with the AA/RAC to come to the rescue of nitwit ordinary motorists who frequent ordinary filling stations, the chance of there being red diesil is remote. Besides you can always inspect the colour of salvaged fuel & steer clear of pink/red stuff.

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That's more or less what I had in mind Mark - which leads nicely to the follow-on question:

 

If you have an arrangement with a couple of places to take any contam - do you get anu sort of signed-off paperwork that could be presented as proof that , effectively, the correct duty has been paid???

 

 

I have that arrangement and they are just glad to get rid of it as it costs them money, as long as you are sensible it's ok.

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Playing devils advocate here for a moment - what about if you had the scenario where a garage hened up the deliveries and had petrol pumped into the red diesel storage tanks. An MV owner then took the contaminated fuel off the garages hands and ran it in his vehicle for a show where the C&E people dipped the tank.

 

Would he get nicked???

 

 

 

Well a few years ago a garage near us did have Red Diesel in their white diesel tanks and it was no accident. The garage was seriously short of money and it was a last ditch attempt to stay in business.

It wasn't found out until a lorry was stopped by VOSA at Newark which is about 60 miles from us. When they dipped his tanks they were full of red diesel. The driver then produced the receipt for near enough a full tank of white diesel purchased an hour or so earlier and his tacho showed that he was telling the truth and had come straight from the garage.

Needless to say, the garage soon went out of business and the innocent driver went on his way without charge.

 

Richard

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OK, here's a slightly different question re red deisel.

 

My MV is a crane, not had it on the road for some while but am just looking to re-licence it so I can maybe attend a couple of shows. Last time it was licenced it was on a 'Q' plate and 'mobile crane' class. The current class for cranes is 'special vehicle' and costs a fair bit more than I used to pay so I am thinking of re-registering it as 'historic vehicle' with a new reg etc and therefore no licence fee (1966 build so it qualifies).

 

The question I can't get a straight answer to at the moment is what fuel will I have to use with a 'historic vehicle' licence, its still physically a crane but one person at the DVLA office said it would have to use white diesel whilst another on a different visit told me red!

 

I keep it on a private site and it sees some use throughout the year so if I will need to use white for the odd trip on the road it would put me off the show idea as I dont want to have to buy white diesel for all the other use.

 

Anyone come across this sort of situation before?

 

Allan.

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If you go to the hmrc website it is all in black and white ( if you can understand it )

 

the webpage is at

 

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000164&propertyType=document'>http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000164&propertyType=document'>http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000164&propertyType=document

 

Or do a search for "Fuel for road vehicles, Notice 75" at

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk

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Yes, have read that document several times before and it specifically says in section 8.9 that mobile cranes are exempt.

 

The confusion comes if it is then licensed on a 'historic vehicle' license, one person at the DVLA office said that means the vehicle is no longer a crane for the purposes of the fuel regs, however another told me it would still be exempt.

 

Think I need to talk to someone other than the counter staff, there seem to be too many regs getting mixed together to allow a simple answer in this case!

 

Allan.

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Taxation class and vehicle type are not the same thing. It can physically be a mobile crane and still be taxed as a historic vehicle. This doesn't stop it from being a crane so according to the letter of the law you can use red. It boils down to the question of how much you fancy becoming a test case since this is a very grey area. (Plus since you have access to red diesel VOSA may well be keeping an eye on your usage already.)

 

I suggest you talk to VOSA since they are the ones who carry out these types of inspections.

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On this red Diesel topic (which, with the derogation of marine red, may soon become harder to buy from a pump);

 

There is no reason why, if a vehicle is solely used off the highway (trailered to and from events) you cannot use red diesel (gas oil) because the only tax not applied is the road duty. You are free to use red in plant that remaines on site, builders will often use red on diggers and things that get transported site to site.

 

C&E can only dip your tanks if they have stong suspicion or proof that the vehicle has been on the road ( Chieftan owners can sleep easy then ;-))

 

However there does seem to be a 'get out' of sorts;

 

As we experienced during the big fuel crisis about 5 years ago some folks at work could only get red diesel to run their cars, so a phone call to the bods at Customs house revealed that if they popped along with a reciept for how much red they had filled with, they could pay the road duty over the counter and were then issued with a reciept to prove it if stopped,they take your milage and assume a distance by which you should have used it by (but how many tracked vehicles have odometers :dunno:)

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