restoration Ozzie Saladin

[Aussie]

Thanks guys.

Understand what to do now. Will post pics when I get the seals and make the tool to unscrew the nut.

[Catch 22 LBDR]

Thanks guys.

Understand what to do now. Will post pics when I get the seals and make the tool to unscrew the nut.

 

Are you talking about the big brass part? I dont think you will need to touch that. As I recall on the Ferret the shaft in between the two bevel balls (inner and outer) should split by opening a ring of bolts. There should be a ring of bolts on the face of the brass ring, remove them and the brass ring will come in half bringing the seal with it.

 

This is only if it is the same as a Ferret, I hope this helps

 

[Catch 22 LBDR]

On studding your pictures it's not the same, it looks like you need to unscrew the inside part of the brass ring, drift the retaining pins and draw the ball inside the ring. you must still be able to split the two bevel balls apart though.

[Aussie]

Yes it looks a bit different. I'll remove the locking tab and unscrew the inner threaded nut (on the right in the pic before) then drift out the two dowels and it will come apart. The shaft comes apart in the centre, that's not a problem, so the inner part of the housing, with the oil seal, will then slip off over the shaft. Will post pics when I get to it (need to get the seals first!).

BTW I'm now looking at my seized front wheels. Posted on the "I'm stupid" forum but any advice appreciated. I'm planning to pull the hub housing off by pressing the hub bolts out against the end of the shaft, and hope that's not a silly thing to do.. Will post pics on here when I know a bit more about what's going on (suspect it's because hubs are full of water not oil).

Cheers

James

[Aussie]

Not feeling quite so stupid so back on this post! The front wheels are locked, although they did turn a while back (in fact RF "free wheeled". Anyway, I disconnected the brake plate and drum (thumb) and the pressure plate (forefinger) spins freely, so I assume that exonerates the brake.

I removed the outer ring of nuts to remove the housing, but was unable to remove the two slotted plugs to insert extractor bolts. Spent a while making a fancy attachment, thinking I could tighten down the hub nuts and press on the shaft to extract it:

Waste of time! The flat bit of angle iron just bent. I can see how this could be made to work, but in the end decided to just bolt the hub cap back on and hit it

This would work quite well if everything wasn't seized! So the hammer got heavier and temper shorter, but eventually got it moving. Used pine wood wedges while hitting it out, to give more leverage

You can see where it separates - near the end of the wheel studs (not up against the brake drum, as I'd assumed). As it came out i got another trickle of water (yes, water!)

So, out it came, in all it's rusty glory. However the gears themselves look ok, with no broken teeth. There are shims against the sun gear (I've left it on the shaft for the moment) and they need to go back the same.

To remove the planet gear housing you undo the 5 housing nuts on the outer face, after removing split pins. This was a tight squeeze for my socket but was able to tap it on gently with a hammer. Then you put the housing with the inside facing down and gently tap the planet pins - these are actually also the hub cap bolts

And with pins/bolts tapped in

And you end up with the housing - there are big washers between it and the planet housing visible at the bottom) and they need to go back on reassembly. Tap out the tracta ball bearing - mine is seized, so part of the problem.

 

And the 5 planet gears. Two spun easily and three were seized.

So - I lifted one of them off its shaft. It came out quite easily and I was left with a handful of needle roller bearings! These a pretty grungy but should clean up if I can't buy new ones. Putting them back in will be quite a challenge, I suspect, so if your planet gears move freely, leave them in peace!

The gears are tarnished but i think they will clean up with wet and dry paper. Each gear has one tooth marked with a centre punch (at the top in pic). These marks need to be lined up (on an imaginary line between the planet gear shaft and the central tracta shaft) on reassembly and as far as I can see, this is all that's involved with "timing" them.

So now I'll spend some quality time cleaning this mess up and getting the roller bearings back together, as well as getting a new tracta bearing.

And the good news (a gift that keeps on giving!) is that the wheel is still seized, so there's more trouble upstream. I'm guessing the other bearing but time will tell.

Cheers

James

Edited November 17, 2013 by Aussie

[Aussie]

Time for an update. Basically working on bits and pieces rather haphazardly but now think I have a better plan (basically what everyone else did from the start).

So..

Made a spanner to undo the spherical housing, but have some NOS wheel stations so rather than fiddle I think i'll use the NOS wherever possible and keep the others for spares. Seals for the spherical housings seem to be hard to get, so if anyone has any ideas I'd be grateful.

Also made a tool to unload the torsion bar adjusters but don't entirely trust my welds, so rather than follow the EMER (slacken the adjusters fully then use the tool to pull the adjuster lever down) I tighten the adjuster nut down to expose about 22 threads, then put on the tool but use it just to hold the adjuster bar down. Then slacken off the adjuster nut and the adjuster can be removed.

I'm now pretty good at removing wheel stations, having finally removed the lot! Lessons? Well, the RF was a chore. Firstly the steering arm wouldn't come out - was looking at the angle grinder but fortunately found a spanner first, and unscrewed the arm.

Then tried to remove the wheel housing. Bit of a long story but when I finally jacked it off with a Portapower I discovered that the shaft wasn't connected. So the outer bit came off, leaving the spherical housing and a bit of shaft bit no tracta shaft inside. Seems someone broke the tracta shaft (probably wound it up too much) and then just removed the broken shaft, leaving RF to free wheel (until the wheel bearing seized). Didn't bolt the intermediate shaft back on, and forgot to put a bit of oil back in.

So, I put the portapower between the hull and the end of the shaft, and jacked - and jacked - then there was a loud bang as it exploded out of the bevel box, landing a few feet away (but missing my head). SWMBO promptly threatened to have it all carted away but I promised to be more careful.

The bevel box is seized/rusty so needs to come out. Scraping muck of the outer face revealed the two threaded extractor holes (top right, bottom left). Bolts screwed into this should push the bevel box out.

Off course, to get the bevel box out you need to remove the pinion housing. The bottom inside bolt has a smaller head and thicker washer to allow you to get at it. When you take the housing off, remember to keep the shims that go with it.

 

The other wheel stations were reasonable except for the top link pin LC which was impossible to remove with bashing, heat, cold, Penetrene. Finally decided to cut it. Succeeded but swore I'd never do it again. Total shocker to cut - don't do it!

A couple of stations wouldn't "pop out" so for these I jacked the bottom out to push the housing clear. (Tried jacking the Station up but actually started to lift the whole vehicle off its jacks, which was a bit unsettling).

Flushed with success i headed of to the RR torsion bar. Did get it out but the cover plate set screws against the hull are a pain to get at, and I don't know what spanner you're supposed to use. They are a weird size and I ended up filing an 8mm spanner to remove less then half a mm so it would fit. 15/32 was a loose fit. My "extractor" was made up on the spot - ended up lightly jacking it out but wasn't tight. More grease than I've seen anywhere else on the beast!

 

The next challenge is to get the torsion tube and upper and lower links off (I think the NOS wheel stations don't have the hull bracket - haven't seen them yet). However after fiddling with more cover plate screws I bit the bullet and did what I should have done in the first place - was trying not to remove the hull brackets because to remove a couple of the bolts you have to remove the bevel box pinion housing. But in the long run I reckon it's the way to go. That way I can clean and paint the lower hull properly, and leave the brackets, etc, for (yet) another day.

[Catch 22 LBDR]

Your a great man for making up tools. A fine bit of work there in removing all 6 wheel stations:sweat:. The oil seals for the ferret were easily got from UK suppliers, I would have thought they would have ones for the Saladin.

 

Keep up the good/hard work, love the thread:-D. Ross

Edited February 16, 2014 by Catch 22 LBDR

[cooler07]

First rate work sir. I have one of my stations off LF just waiting for seals.

[cooler07]

Hi James sorry for delay I also didn`t see I had a message.

 

As for the seals "spherical housings the big ones" I got a full set of 12 from Makano Surplus in the UK. They are NOS and I also heard the same thing about using new ones not using NOS but I think they should be ok. I put non pressure breathers on every wheel station and that keeps the pressure build up to zero. Now the oil doesn`t leak out. I think most of the leaks I had were from the cork seals that go around the house that sits in the bevel box. I putting three new rubber O-rings on each one. I should have some pictures on it in the next day or so. Better then cork.

 

I have a supplier and have asked about making new spherical housings seals. So I should have some news on that soon.

 

I have been following your work and it is very useful info!!!!!!!Excellent job!

 

here`s a link to my Saladin #04CC45

https://www.facebook.com/groups/295108097280779/

 

 

Cheers James

[cooler07]

[Aussie]

Wow - that looks so nice and clean and shiny!

Please let me know about the seals - I'd probably prefer new, if anyone makes them. Also, could you expand on the non pressure breathers you put in? And the O rings instead of cork sounds like an interesting idea too.

Have removed 5 of the hull suspension brackets - nothing terribly exciting but time consuming and fiddly. To remove LF I need to remove the steering jack to get at bolts but the jack needs to come out anyway - needs a new dust boot, at least.

A couple of things..

The "special" bevel box bolts have a smaller head and thick washer so you can get at them. However one was so rusted I couldn't get anything on it, so had to drill it out. Think I'll get a turned-down stainless bolt to replace it, although hopefully the beast won't be so badly abused from now on.

The suspension bolts are different lengths. Logical enough but seems simplest to put them back where they came from, before storage.

Housekeeping.. Got a drum of degreaser that I really don't use that much for parts (not much grease to remove!). However it's fantastic for cleaning the floor - wipe a bit on and mop off with water. Be careful with ventilation, etc, etc, etc, of course.

[ferretfixer]

You are SOoooooooooooo Lucky to have such a LARGE 'Toy Shed' To work it Mate!

 

Good work, well done. & thanks for sharing the progress pictures with us all.

The Saladin is a particular Favourite of Mine! :-D

[cooler07]

 

Hi James

 

The NOS seals seem to work, they were still in the sealed packages. In the pictures I pressed them in first using a steel plate then using and old seal because of the recessed position.

 

As for the breathers I put a fitting on and purchased on eBay a box of small crank case filters. As my Saladin will not be wading anymore. The old breathers seem to take about 5 to 10 psi to open. With old seals the oil will pushes out before the breathers open.

 

Also I need to give you ALL the credit for the tool manufacturing to disassemble the tracta housings. That was all you!!!!!! I took your idea, but mine doesn't look as good....!!!!

 

When I refitted the screw cap, it screwed down to the same thread count minus a quarter turn. As per the manual you put a wooden handle inside the housing and twist it feeling the resistance.

 

The seals feels better then the old ones so I will see.

 

As for new ones I'm going to talk with my seal guys this week and see what they can do for new seals.

 

I will be putting my bevel and other bits in today. You are going great are your Sal and I also wish my shop was bigger, you can never have a big enough shop!!!!!!!!

 

James

Edited February 23, 2014 by cooler07

[cooler07]

More pictures!

[robin craig]

James,

 

Great pictures and very interesting.

 

I am very interested to see someone else using that method of venting, I also went that route for a vehicle but used a much smaller assembly. Each to their own. Once you decide a vehicle is not going to swim it makes life a lot easier.

 

Thank you for posting.

 

Robin

[cooler07]

Thank you Robin!

 

Yeah I have a 1967 SIIA LR and learned along time ago about breathers.

 

Does make life a little easier!!

 

Cheers

[Aussie]

Thanks James. Very interesting and helpful.

Regarding the pressure relief valves on the bevel boxes, I wonder if anyone has tried adjusting these to reduce the pressure that they open at? The base seems to be fixed to a hollow pin that is flanged, so to take them apart would involve grinding the flange off. Then the spring could be replaced with a weaker one, and the base fixed back on by splaying out the end of the rod again.

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Then again, if the rod is lifted slightly the pressure is zero

So.. i wonder if you could just put a circlip or equivalent where the scissors are in the pic. That would relieve the pressure and I don't expect that too much oil would leak out (?). The rod could move further out if there was more pressure, and if you wanted to go swimming the circlips could be removed.

Seems too easy, so is it a silly idea?

James

[101 Ron]

Since the Saladin is a total rebuild job and access will not be a problem, why not look at the set up used on the stalwart.

Join all the breathers together without pressure valves to a central point or tank.

The advantages are great as any small leak that does occur will not be too much of a problem as it will be topped up all the time.

The set up saves much time as you do not have to go around and check oil in hubs or bevel boxes before a long trip.

If any water enters anywhere just drain the hub or bevel box and new oil will come though.

Sorry Aussie I was the one who took the last of Tims tracta joint ball seals.

I think the UK is going to be the only place to get new ones as any seal supplied locally from a bearing supplier will not be shaped correctly on the lip of the seal to work correctly on the ball radius.

Ron

PS you a doing a great job and hope you the best .

[cooler07]

James;

 

Not a bad idea at all I just didn't want to make it that complicated!!!!!!

[robin craig]

I think for my money I am in the mindset of not destroying the parts you have in any way.

 

I understand what you are saying about the breathers. I am pondering this in my mind for my Ferret which looks to have the same part.

 

I think what I am going to do is make a threaded piece with a vent tub but have the tube rise up and turn over with a fuel filter mounted in line so that oil wont come out but air will.

 

It will be the same as we used on the CVR(W) Fox fan bevel box.

 

That way I can put the vent back into stock for refitting if I ever want to.

 

R

[cooler07]

Got the station back in and the Saladin on its own power.!!!!

[robin craig]

Very interesting to read and follow along, I am gaining on understanding all the time.

 

What is the special T handled tool with the splined end being used to engage the large ring gear near the end?

 

R

[cooler07]

That's the brake tool for adjusting the brakes, had it make from an original one that a guy in the UK had. Thing is price-list.

 

 

 

 

 

Very interesting to read and follow along, I am gaining on understanding all the time.

 

What is the special T handled tool with the splined end being used to engage the large ring gear near the end?

 

R

[Starfire]

Thing is price-list.

 

Priceless?

[cosrec]

That's the brake tool for adjusting the brakes, had it make from an original one that a guy in the UK had. Thing is price-list.

Completely out of my depth here but will ask anyway is the brake system sort of like a multi plate clutch on a motor bike have looked at photos i am stumped. if so can understand how brake tool adjusts it

Edited March 2, 2014 by cosrec