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RogerTill

Driving License Needed to Drive...

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...an Alvis Stalwart?

 

Probably been asked a few times before... I've searched the forum but can't find anything... appologogies if it's been answered to death...

 

Cheers

 

Rog

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I did look into this some years ago and was advised that to be legal I would need the old HGV class 2 as the stalwart had more than 2 axles allowed on a Class 3 license. If you follow this through, it would mean that you now need a Class C license (which is a combined replacement for the old HGV3 and HGV2). This would also fit with the fact that the stalwart weights 9 tonnes and so exceeds the weight limit for the C1 which many people have 'grandfather' rights to.

 

However I would be happy to be corrected as there seems to be specials rules for large good type vehicles which aren't used to carry anything. And I for one would be really happy to be advised that there is some sort of get out clause for the Stalwart (and others of the alvis 6 wheel family) :)

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Sorry if it seems abrubt but if you have nothing other than a car licence no you are stuffed for driving a stalwart on the road legally despite what others might say.

having said that you can drive what ever you want on private land

Edited by cosrec

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you definitly need a c class on your licence, rigid body over 7.5 tons.....some did drive them on b licences but thats when we were less knowledgable. You would need to bring the weight down to less than 7.5 tons register it PLG and MOT it as gross weight 7.5 tons...

 

losing the weight isnt that difficult, loads of gear can come out and you should have around 7 tons. Things like the swim units, the fire system, the gearboxes for the dowty drive, the front winch if fitted, the fuel tank and fit an alloy one, and other paraphernalia that are no longer used...

 

I think it is just about do-able...as to the MOT no chance but the reclassification is just a paper excercise..ie you just register it as a 7.5 ton gross vehicle weight. Not as simple as it might sound due to other potental issues.

 

I must weigh my stripped out stolly and see how much she weighs..

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Sorry if it seems abrubt but if you have nothing other than a car licence no you are stuffed for driving a stalwart on the road legally despite what others might say.

having said that you can drive what ever you want on private land

 

 

Says it all really, Cat C licence as bare minimum

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However I would be happy to be corrected as there seems to be specials rules for large good type vehicles which aren't used to carry anything.

 

That only applies to over 3500 kg pre-1960 used unladen. Stalwart is too 'modern' to claim any exemption.

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First, is the vehicle road registered? A lot of them were registered as agricultural in the early days, so what is on the log book?

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I hate to bring it up, but aren't Stalwarts overwidth? If so you can't drive one legaly with any licence.

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Surely stripping bits out to drop the vehicle weight doesn't help - yes you drop the unladen weight, but as the weight that counts is the laden weight it doesn't change, you're just making it so the load bed can be loaded more before reaching the vehicle's laden maximum weight.

 

Have I missed something?

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Surely stripping bits out to drop the vehicle weight doesn't help - yes you drop the unladen weight, but as the weight that counts is the laden weight it doesn't change, you're just making it so the load bed can be loaded more before reaching the vehicle's laden maximum weight.

 

Have I missed something?

 

 

A vehicle has a "plated" weight. This is the gross vehicle weight allowed by law. It is not unusual for a vehicle to have a greater design weight than is permitted by law.

It is perfectly feasible to "downplate" a vehicle that is to reduce its "plated" or revenue weight. This then impacts on the licence required to drive it or the amount of road fund licence that is payable

 

In industry it might mean reducing the plated weight of an artic because it only carries a light bulky load, this then reduces the rfl payable

 

It is also possible to downplate rigid vehicles, from a 14tonner say to a 12tonner.

 

In our game it may be possible to downplate a Stalwart, although I really dont know how that would happen because it assumes the vehicle undergoes an MOT, how many of preserved Stollies are tested? (the comment about being over width is also very valid)

 

Surely the easiest cheapest and most satisfactory way of removing one of the barriers to ownership is go and take a CAT C test.

 

CAT C entitlement, no argument about driving qualification (may be a whole rake of other issues though to discuss with the chap from VOSA)

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A vehicle has a "plated" weight. This is the gross vehicle weight allowed by law. It is not unusual for a vehicle to have a greater design weight than is permitted by law.

It is perfectly feasible to "downplate" a vehicle that is to reduce its "plated" or revenue weight. This then impacts on the licence required to drive it or the amount of road fund licence that is payable

 

In industry it might mean reducing the plated weight of an artic because it only carries a light bulky load, this then reduces the rfl payable

 

It is also possible to downplate rigid vehicles, from a 14tonner say to a 12tonner.

 

In our game it may be possible to downplate a Stalwart, although I really dont know how that would happen because it assumes the vehicle undergoes an MOT, how many of preserved Stollies are tested? (the comment about being over width is also very valid)

 

Surely the easiest cheapest and most satisfactory way of removing one of the barriers to ownership is go and take a CAT C test.

 

CAT C entitlement, no argument about driving qualification (may be a whole rake of other issues though to discuss with the chap from VOSA)

 

 

 

Is this a separate weight than the driving license one? I'm just wondering if it's that easy, why folks cut the suspension springs on Bedford MJ/MK for example. There would be no need if it's a paperwork exercise to drop below 7.5t for C1?

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That only applies to over 3500 kg pre-1960 used unladen. Stalwart is too 'modern' to claim any exemption.

 

""""pre 60s used unladen and drawing an unladen trailer. (& for new military enthusiasts) With OVER two years of driving experience.

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""""pre 60s used unladen and drawing an unladen trailer. (& for new military enthusiasts) With OVER two years of driving experience.

 

Dont quite know where the "Over two years driving experience" comes from, I have had a look through my reference documents and cannot see this stated anywhere, perhaps you could tell us where this is from???

 

The only reference I can see is "Vintage Goods Vehicle........A Goods vehicle manufactured before 1st January 1960 used unladen and and not drawing a laden trailer"

(Reference document FTA Yearbook of Transport Law 2011)

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Is this a separate weight than the driving license one? I'm just wondering if it's that easy, why folks cut the suspension springs on Bedford MJ/MK for example. There would be no need if it's a paperwork exercise to drop below 7.5t for C1?

 

The whole premise is the class of licence for the class of vehicle

To drive a vehicle of over 7.5tonnes GVW you will need a C1 licence (those of us who passed the car test prior to 1997 will have this category on their licence).

Those who took their test after that will need to take a seperate "vocational licence" test.

The fact that this test is the same for a CATC licence (vehicles over 7.5tonnes with two or more axles) it is to me a no brainer as to which test to take (Driver CPC does not generally apply if you dont intend to use the licence vocationally i.e. to earn money

 

Yes indeed a way of downplating is to take leaves out of springs, to put smaller bolts in 5th wheel or to reduce the size of the tyres, and there are firms who specialise in this.

Quitye how you would downplate a Stollie is beyond me, they would look rather silly on 8.25X16 wheels and tyres.

There is also the issue of testing one as I a sure they do not comply with any C&U regs

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The whole premise is the class of licence for the class of vehicle

To drive a vehicle of over 7.5tonnes GVW you will need a C1 licence (those of us who passed the car test prior to 1997 will have this category on their licence).

Those who took their test after that will need to take a seperate "vocational licence" test.

The fact that this test is the same for a CATC licence (vehicles over 7.5tonnes with two or more axles) it is to me a no brainer as to which test to take (Driver CPC does not generally apply if you dont intend to use the licence vocationally i.e. to earn money

 

Yes indeed a way of downplating is to take leaves out of springs, to put smaller bolts in 5th wheel or to reduce the size of the tyres, and there are firms who specialise in this.

Quitye how you would downplate a Stollie is beyond me, they would look rather silly on 8.25X16 wheels and tyres.

There is also the issue of testing one as I a sure they do not comply with any C&U regs

 

Category C1 licence is for vehicles over 3.5t gross UP TO 7.5t gross. If towing a trailer it must not exceed 750kg and weight of vehicle and trailer must not exceed 7.5t.

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Category C1 licence is for vehicles over 3.5t gross UP TO 7.5t gross. If towing a trailer it must not exceed 750kg and weight of vehicle and trailer must not exceed 7.5t.

 

Agreed

You are correct it was a slip of my typing finger (too early)

C1 3.5 tonne to 7.5 tonne

Over 7.5 tonne CatC

So even if you did downplate it to 7.5tonne you still need CatC to drive it

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Well that's it then, Class C license test is booked...

 

I hate to bring it up, but aren't Stalwarts overwidth? If so you can't drive one legaly with any licence.

 

By 7cm if you go on official specifications... I've measured one and it was under he maximum 2.50cm, possible due to production vehicle specifications measurement with all bells and whisltes on it...

Edited by RogerTill

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yes, it is not too wide, you can make it too wide by lowering the torsion bars and flatening the suspension but if you set it up properly it is not too wide... The down plating has become a paper excercise as I said, however the problem is replating a Stalwart assumes someone will do an MOT for it, the re doing the V5...that in my experience is unlikely although to this day I do not see why. You could just try doing it via the V5...but it must then stay within the limits, you cant do it and then ignore the limits...of course the ideal solution is to take the C license test, it will make you a safer driver and able to handle the Stalwart a good deal better on our roads...the CPC only applies if you want to do it as a trade, not as a hobby.

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You can try taking a Stalwart to a testing station - but if it's Purfleet or anything like it they will refuse to test it - permanent 6x6 means the computerized brake test cannot be used and, whilst a Tapley is still (at the moment) an approved aletrnative, H&S rules will not let a tester climb up the side to go in via a roof hatch.

I asked when I bought little Maud and was told to use a V112.

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