radiomike7 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Snorkers? British English colloquialism for sausages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fesm_ndt Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Should of been digging up a carpark in leicester as they found a broken arrow amongst other missing stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 British English colloquialism for sausages More Royal Navy really, but I belive the Army nicked it! :-D Think of a tin of hot dog sauaseges surrounded by white hard lard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted January 20, 2013 Author Share Posted January 20, 2013 Daily Telegraph EXCLUSIVE 6:42PM GMT 20 Jan 2013 ----- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviation/9814459/Burma-spitfires-search-still-on-says-mission-leader-David-Cundall.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/burmamyanmar/9813074/Spitfire-hunter-pledges-the-search-will-go-on.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 "We would love to pull a Spitfire out of the ground, but we have always said this is about the story, the background, the archaeological research" :undecided: Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fesm_ndt Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 "A former schoolteacher who had studied the 18th Century Enlightenment to postgraduate level, he seemed to struggle to comprehend the Burmese approach to business and bureaucracy." :D After living in SEA since '96 I can definately say there is a very different "approach to business and bureaucracy" I could well imagine his lack of preparedness to the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/some-of-our-spitfires-are-missing-doubts-over-existence-of-160-ww2-fighter-planes-in-burma-8458772.html Read to bottom of column , info starting to drip out, allegations regarding past search finances.. I suppose the Forum moderators must be getting near to locking this thread.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fesm_ndt Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The problem I forsee now, is even if they do see something there will be years of legal litigation similar to the Japanese submarine full of gold, as from memory that is still ongoing between the person who found it and the person who financed it. It will be a pity to see this guy get dragged through the mud for believing in something and perhaps ignoring the other facts that may disprove his belief, as many people can have that problem. A bit like bringing a rusty green heap home and telling the wife "this is about the story, the background, the archaeological research" :-D Damn that's catchy, I might use that after my next junk trip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAFMT Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The RAF did indeed keep meticulous records of all aircraft ordered. So we can look at contracts for Spitfire XIV and find out the serial numbers reserved for those aircraft. It's then possible to look at the career of each aircraft, and if these chaps have investigated the records then it would be clear if any "mint in box" spitfires were sent to Burma and left there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The RAF did indeed keep meticulous records of all aircraft ordered. So we can look at contracts for Spitfire XIV and find out the serial numbers reserved for those aircraft. It's then possible to look at the career of each aircraft, and if these chaps have investigated the records then it would be clear if any "mint in box" spitfires were sent to Burma and left there. Unfortunately, they were not so meticulous in recording disposal information. Many cards simply state 'presumed SOC'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Johns Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) A bit ironic, when checking Spitfire history apparently in 1954 the Burmese government bought 30 Spitfires from Israel! its only fairly recently the survivors were bought by an American Edited January 21, 2013 by Nick Johns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Unfortunately, they were not so meticulous in recording disposal information. Many cards simply state 'presumed SOC'. Leaving aside any record of disposal for a moment - if there are records for all aircraft, there should therefore be some records which show some spitfires shipped to far east but not having any "career" so to speak. Or is that being too logical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike65 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Leaving aside any record of disposal for a moment - if there are records for all aircraft, there should therefore be some records which show some spitfires shipped to far east but not having any "career" so to speak. Or is that being too logical? To apply logic you need a Vulcan Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Well it's true this thread is going where no thread has gone before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangie Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 To boldly go where no Vulcan had gone before! Wasn't that the Falklands.......? :nut: Alec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAFMT Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Leaving aside any record of disposal for a moment - if there are records for all aircraft, there should therefore be some records which show some spitfires shipped to far east but not having any "career" so to speak. Or is that being too logical? Having spent far too many hours working with these records, that's what i was going to say. Yes many cards list them as simply SOC, however they will say what MU took delivery of them. As there was apparently no mass shipment of unused Spitfire XIVs to Burma it tends to lend credence against Mr Cundall's argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 How do you define a aircraft historian - it seems all that counts is gut instinct and the ability to believe all one is told by aged veterans who were in theatre. Keep on digging LoL Fresh news today :- http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/SpitfireDigToContinueAtSecondSite_208056-1.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 At least in the UK some FACTS on (within) the ground are known . http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/history/10179967.Let_digging_begin/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Please complete the following phrase: If you think about it, the whole idea of burying aircraft so they could be kept away from enemy eyes, and then dug up and got flying quicker and with less risk of alerting the enemy of your intentions than flying them in from elsewhere, is pretty_________ . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAFMT Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Clever? I'm right aren't I? Especially since there was still Singapore, Australia and New Zealand as places to ship aircraft from. All much, much easier than digging them up and putting them together without anyone noticing. Not least because you would still need to ship the people in to do the digging and building! Also hasn't questioned the "eyewitness" that if these were in crates, how did he know they were Spitfires? People who would have been involved in the operation have said it didn't happen, and there is no paperwork to say it happened. I was even contacted by the MT driver who was personal driver to the AOC Burma and was with the last RAF group to leave Burma. He was involved in helping dispose of a lot material, including dropping machine gun and cannon ammunition into the Bay of Bengal from the cargo door of Dakota's and shipping bombs to remote sites to detonate them. Even the last handful of Bedford QLs were used to take the rearguard to docks whereupon the keys were handed over to their new owner before the RAF hopped on a ship to Singapore. He never heard anything about spitfires being buried. There is a large lack of evidence to support the buried Spitfire theory, if he finds some then that's great but you have to ask, why didn't he research it more before getting people to throw their money at him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie The Jeep Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Around 15+ years seems like quite a bit of research to me. That's how long the farmer has been on the trail. Whether the leads result in anything is another matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
escape Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I think the whole story is flawed. I'm sure we've all heard rumors about ww2 items being buried in certain locations but I doubt whether I believe any or many of them. The issue I have, is where is the logic in burying X amount of Spitfires, worth a ridiculous amount of money. I would have thought if the UK government didnt want them they would have sold them. The other issue I have is reciting the memory of a WW2 veteran about this, humans have an amazing ability to tell themselves that something has happen and after time actually believe it, based on little to no evidence. No I think this person has only a vivid recollection of the event and has jumped to conclusions. I doubt they'd find anything, if they do it'll be a couple of spare parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie The Jeep Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 ....worth a ridiculous amount of money........ Probably actually worth very little. There was still mountains of scrap aluminium piled up in England from the 'Pots & Pans' drive, and prop driven aircraft were now becoming obselete due to the jet age. Whether they would have been burried or burned is another matter, but we are still seeing the military dumping airframes and other gear in holes in the ground today, so who's to say. Give him credit for getting off his sofa, spending £150k of his own money and actually looking for them, rather than sitting at home speculating on the internet. I'm wondering how much of the hype, media conferences etc are for the benefit of the TV documentary being made about the search. I can't help but think of the disclaimer at the end of many 'reality' shows that says "Some scenes have been created for entertainment purposes!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzkpfw-e Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 They weren't worth the cost of shipping them back, Europe & the US was littered with surplus aircraft. Remember that there were hundreds of Japanese planes sat on airfields in Indonesia, the Philipines & various islands into the 1960s, before it became viable to either take them to a smelter or bring the smelter to them. Heaps of P38s were buried under Clark Field, planes were pushed off carrier decks, which comes to another "crated aircraft dumped" story, all those Seafires & Corsairs supposedly dumped in their crates somewhere off Australia. More rumoured dumped kit here http://www.ozatwar.com/ozatwar/dumped.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleearth Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 There was supposed to be lots of kit dumped in Lough Erne near Enniskillen in County Fermanagh. I was asked many years ago if I would help retrieve some of the Jeeps that were dumped. I didn`t as the gear was supposed to be covered in razor wire :shocked:. If you want a Sunderland there has been sonar surveys carried out in Lough Erne and again there is supposed to be a few sitting on the Lough bottom. Water visibilty less than 1" due to the peat water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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