question Left-handed firing

[woa2]

Question for you.

 

I know that in the past, Soldiers were all taught to fire a Rifle Right-Handed, even if they were Left-Handed. Question is, when did the British Army, or any other Armies, stop this practice and let Soldiers fire a Rifle Left-handed? Anyone know of a date?

[Tony B]

The SA80 just dosen't shoot left handed. Muzzle loader or lever action don't care and often the rifles are straight stocked. Bolt action rifles often have a cant to the stock to the opposite side of the bolt to line the sights straight with the shooter's eye. When you have a bull pup like the SA80 it is impossible to shoot other than the weapon is set up. The real pain is if your dominate eye is opposite to your 'strong' hand. There have been all sorts of weird and wonderful things developed over the years to get over such problms. The only one that truly works is lots of practice to overcome it.

[recymech66]

I joined the Army in 1989 so used to have a SLR which I fired left handed, I wasn't made to fire right handed as there was no need. I carried out all the drills load unload etc right handed then swapped over to fire. (sometimes made the range staff a bit jittery).

 

However on the introduction of the SA80 I had to learn to shoot right hand for the reasons stated above. To this day I'm rubbish with an iron sight however with a susat or more currently on Ops with an Acog I'm a ninja.

[fv1609]

Would firing from the left shoulder automatically mean left handed firing or could it still be done with the right hand?

 

There was an an exception to right shoulder firing in the Musketery Regulations 1908:

 

"Shooting from the left shoulder is not permitted, unless it is rendered necessary by defective eyesight."

[Niels v]

During my service in the danish army, we where trained to shoot both with left and right on the M4 carbine and rifle we had. It was intended for use in urban warfare. yes a bit hard with iron sights but no problem with optical specially aim point.

[recymech66]

Would firing from the left shoulder automatically mean left handed firing or could it still be done with the right hand?

 

There was an an exception to right shoulder firing in the Musketery Regulations 1908:

 

"Shooting from the left shoulder is not permitted, unless it is rendered necessary by defective eyesight."

 

Not sure I understand your question, but if firing SA80 from the left shoulder that would mean a face full of red hot brass due to the spent case ejection opening being in line with your left cheek.

[woa2]

Just to clarify my question. I believe that during WW1 and WW2, soldiers were taught to fire Right handed only, but were allowed to fire Left handed for street fighting. Question was, when were Soldiers allowed to fire Rifles left handed in normal use?

I am aware of the SA80 being Right hand only, as I heard this from an SAS soldier, who didn't like the gun at all.

[recymech66]

Ok starter for 10, as I said earlier I was firing SLR in 1989 left handed and I wasn't burned at the stake:D so, anybody earlier than 1989?

[Topdog]

I qualified on the SLR left handed in 1982 but they made me fire the Sterling right handed as it was a blow back weapon. The only way I could qualify was by completing the burst fire classification by firing bursts of 1 round.

[robin craig]

I have first hand knowledge that can act as a cautionary tale that is somewhat linked to this.

 

Don't ever fire a firearm such as the SLR or anything that ejects with a similar system except in the way it was intended.

 

This scribe has a dental bridge of 3 teeth lost to SLR ejected casings taken in the mouth.

 

It was my own fault but so easy to do, short of sleep and soaked to the bone, absoultely shagged tired. Got bumped by the DS during an Ex. As you are required to return fire and had just dropped and rolled I figured it was opportune to let loose with the noise maker 7.62 blanks. Rifle was laying on its left side just in front of me, being a mouth breather I took the first 5 casings in the mouth. Sheared two teeth off at the gum.

 

R

[Zero-Five-Two]

I can go back a bit further than Reccymec to 1976, using SLR. I am left handed and also have a very poor right eye. I do remember certain range instructors having a winge about it, but I was a pretty good shot so I got away with it

 

I did have a go with the "new" SA80 just before I left in 1994 (they still weren't general issue to the Royal Engineers then). Firing left handed was down right dangerous with the empty cases in your face. But, right handed was awkward and I couldn't hit a bard door if I was stood in front of it. It was probably just as well I left then

[Chris Hall]

Surely if you were to fire a L85 in the left shoulder, you'd get more than just shells, you'd get a smashed cheek bone with a cocking handle sticking out.

 

 

 

[Tony B]

During my service in the danish army, we where trained to shoot both with left and right on the M4 carbine and rifle we had. It was intended for use in urban warfare. yes a bit hard with iron sights but no problem with optical specially aim point.

If I remember correctly the M4 has a vertical ejection. The problem is for people near by being showered in hot brass. My old Mauser 1896 pistol was vertical eject. I found it advisable to wear a hard hat, but always had plenty of room on the range. :-D

[Big Al]

When I was in you had to fire left and right handed with the SLR, when the SA80 was bourght into service this was not possible as stated in other posts. My other hoppy is shooting and I shoot competions nationaly and internationly in competions that require you to shoot left and right handed funny I seem to shoot better left hand than right handed !

Al

[recymech66]

Surely if you were to fire a L85 in the left shoulder, you'd get more than just shells, you'd get a smashed cheek bone with a cocking handle sticking out.

 

Yes correct, it would smart a bit.

[Chris Hall]

I've been using the L85 for the last 17 years and I've always been wary of the bolt flying back and forth millimeters from my face. The last photo above shows a rifle that the shooter had a very lucky escape from. A Afghan AK round went through the back end and the guy got some frag in the face, very luck chap, had it been a different gun it could have been a different outcome for him.

[Tony B]

I've been using the L85 for the last 17 years and I've always been wary of the bolt flying back and forth millimeters from my face. The last photo above shows a rifle that the shooter had a very lucky escape from. A Afghan AK round went through the back end and the guy got some frag in the face, very luck chap, had it been a different gun it could have been a different outcome for him.

 

Wasn't he the guy that had previously been balled out for not being switched on when on top cover? Gaurdian angel on overtime that ocassion.

[rog8811]

Around 1969 I first fired an enfield .303 on an RAF base a stones thow from Scampton. When I put the rifle to my left shoulder the instructor told me to stop. He then instructed me that after firing I should lay the rifle over to the left and turn my face to the right as I pulled the bolt back...... I managed to remember to do this....for the first 5 rounds.

After the first shot of my second five I was reminded by a tap on the forehead from a lump of brass.:undecided:

 

I did, that day, recieve my RAF marksman certificate though.

[AlienFTM]

In 1975 I was taught to fire SMG right-handed as my personal weapon in 1. RMP 2. RAC. In RAC I was taught to fire SLR right-handed as Alternative Personal Weapon (in RMP it was the 9 milly).

 

Arrived in NI in February 1976 where I attended a Northern Ireland Reinforcement Training Team (NIRTT) course prior to being officially allowed on the streets. (These were the days when they were needing them, not feeding them, and I spent a week and a half on the streets beforehand cos they needed me. Bless.)

 

At Ballykinler I was taught to fire both SLR and SMG left-handed, though the latter was with the caveat that it was only to be done wearing a respirator, since, whereas the SLR ejected its empty cases to the right, more or less at right-angles to the weapon, ejected its cases more or less backwards. Firing the SMG left-handed wearing a respirator, we learned to expect the not empty case to smack us in the face.

 

Last day of the course I spent in Belfast attached to 42 Commando. When a bag of rounds was found on a roundabout nearby, the entire Commando stood to and staked it out. I was tasked with watching a terrace of houses around a left-hand corner and spent two hours kneeling left-handed around that corner waiting for a window to open and the lights to go out: a combat indicator. Never happened. Eventually the CO confessed that it was probably a set-up, sacrificing several thousand rounds of ammo in order to move an RPG unmolested on the other side of the area.

[ChasSomT.]

Confession time: Late 70s, in an unaccustomed 'dismounted role' (I was an AFV crewman!) on exercise with an SLR,

fitted with a Blank Firing Device, we had a bit of a 'niggle' with the 'enemy'. We all ended up firing blank into the air,

me,left handed, firing with the butt on my left hip. Cue rapid extraction of two hot cases from inside the collar of my KFS

(Khaki Furry Shirt) I only did that once :-)

 

'Chas.'

[AlienFTM]

Confession time: Late 70s, in an unaccustomed 'dismounted role' (I was an AFV crewman!) on exercise with an SLR,

fitted with a Blank Firing Device, we had a bit of a 'niggle' with the 'enemy'. We all ended up firing blank into the air,

me,left handed, firing with the butt on my left hip. Cue rapid extraction of two hot cases from inside the collar of my KFS

(Khaki Furry Shirt) I only did that once :-)

 

'Chas.'

 

I did the Osnabruck Triathlon in ... mmm ... 1984. After the swimming was the 9mm pistol shoot. Rather than combats, lightweights, boots, puttees, webbing, etc, we all wore tracksuits (after the shooting came the run: why dress up in between the swimming and the shooting?) and skeleton webbing (might even have been just a web belt and pouch).

 

So we dressed forward onto the firing point keeping the weapon pointed downrange at all times.

 

With a magazine of 10 rounds LOAD.

 

READY.

 

WATCH AND SHOOT.

 

I brought the pistol up to the aim. The bloke on my left got his round a split second before me. A bee struck my neck and flew inside my T-shirt. Ouch. Engagement missed.

 

Second round, same detail. After the second round I untucked the T-shirt and adjusted my position sufficiently that his hot empty cases didn't smack my neck and get stuck around my waist.

 

I rushed the remaining shoots, double-tapping to try and gets the spare rounds off but any chance I had of a half-decent score was gone.

 

(Tbf I was only there cos the other two guys in the office fancied either a run or a swim with a bit of pistol shooting thrown in and I didn't fancy manning the office by myself. Neither running nor swimming was my favourite pastime, but converting live rounds into empty cases is never wasted time. It was a lovely warm summer day out.)

[Zero-Five-Two]

Funny how someone else's post can trigger the memory, nothing to do with left handed firing, but hot spent cases, definitely.

 

Section Commanders Course,n Chattenden 1984. Final exercise, final attack. LMG at the ready with an awful lot of rounds to use up before end ex. Advance to enemy, drop into firing position and let rip, covering rest of section.

 

Right sleeve of combat jacket fills with hot cases, smell of singed flesh, but didn't notice burning with heat of battle etc.

 

Final charge to enemy position, grab for LMG carrying handle in the dark, but miss and grab red hot barrel instead. Parts of fingers stick to barrel. Did notice that one. Number two has to finish attack on his own, spent next week with arm in sling

[Jiver]

I can vaguely remember training in 83 that no left handed firing was allowed because of the lack of opposite handed s6 resperators As the filter got in the way. Later in my time arround 87, 88 I remember an opposite sided resperator being issued to a pal of mine on a sniping course as he was a left handed shot and I can't remember this being frowned upon.

[tim gray]

I seem to recall that the SLR not only had .22 conversion kit but that it also was adaptable to left hand firing by the use of apropriate bolt , top cover etc. Two guys in my first sqaudron had em. Used to hack you off on the range as the cases came at you from an unexpected direction. Only possible of course as the cocking handle does not reciprocate when firing.

 

Did any one else notice that all firing points were designed so that the empty ejected case would hop over the guy next to you and down the neck of the next one??

 

Regards

 

Tim