Joris Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Yeah, that does worry me when I'm driving. Even with a small tank like a CVRT you could do serious damage. Each track link has a 3-inch pointed horn sticking out the side. At 30mph, the front ones coming up over the drive sprockets are accelerating from 0 - 60mph. If they hit say, a car wing, they'd open it like a tin can. Equally the front of a CVRT is smooth and curves upwards and you could easy drive up the back of a saloon or sports car if it stopped in front too quickly. Another worry is pulling up curbstones when pulling away from the side of the road. Having said that the brakes and steering are very good and the visibility is no problem. The saving grace is that everyone gives you a LOT of space. From my experience people usually give you extra space when you drive in a MV, which is a good thing because you just don't have the same view from a Dodge as you have from a megane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 That old lady was just daft! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 That old lady was just daft! Substitute "Stupid" for "Daft" and you'd be nearer the mark!!! :schocked: :schocked: Back on the actual driving of these things - got a reply from Terry in Kent tonight: Hi Neil,its £245 inclusive of your test fee. It is a full one day course, with your day ending with the actual driving test being conducted by the DSA examiner-and you go home with your H licence! All training and the test in on public roads. I use a range of tracked vehicles from the Scorpion, up to the mighty Challenger main battle tank! Let me know if you want to book. Kind regards Terry When I go back to work in the new year I'm going to hit the EDAP program at Ford to see if they will foot part, if not all, the bill!! :-) :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pearson Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 There are two sides to the question about whether or not you are OK to drive a tracked vehicle without passing your test first. First situation: stopped by the police. He/she will probably have stopped you for a look anyway and there is unlikely to be any problem. Second situation: you have just driven over a small car or taken a child around the sprocket. You have no chance of avoiding custody, have no insurance etc etc. Do not risk it! One thing though: how can anyone justify £1500 plus to pass a group H? Spend the money on your own and pass the test yourself. If you can drive a car/van then you can certainly drive a tank with a bit of practice. That is how I learned. One final thing, rubber track pads are NOT necessary for road travel. In the 1920's the then Government were going to ban steel to road surface contact but by the time they had considered it, all of the traction engines had been fitted with rubber tyres and steam rollers had to continue anyway. As a result they never did ban it but they did make the driver responsible for any damage done to the road. That is why you are charged if you knock down a road sign. Mind you, steel tracks are VERY slippy on wet roads so you have to take it very slow to avoid losing all steering and braking. Just don't knock out any kerbstones unless your name is Rockerfeller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 23, 2006 Author Share Posted December 23, 2006 Thank you all for your answers and to summerise: 1. I can drive a tracked vehicle on the road? 2. Only need to take an H test? 3. Do not need a crew to crew the tank? 4. A tracked vehicle does not need to have rubber pads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 Thank you all for your answers and to summerise: 1. I can drive a tracked vehicle on the road? 2. Only need to take an H test? 3. Do not need a crew to crew the tank? 4. A tracked vehicle does not need to have rubber pads? 1. yes 2. Yes but can also drive unaccompanied (see No.3) on L plates, have details somewhere from DVLA stating that, also you must tell your insurance company that you only have a provisional licence for H Class if driving on L plates. 3. Not recommended, when I had an accident in the Fox I was asked by the insurance company if I had a commander with voice communication.. 4. I thought the weight limit for metal tracks on the road was 5tons?? that's what I was told.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 jack answers to you summery 1, yes you can drive a tracked vehicle on the road with your car licence with a class H licence holder supervising with you and "L" plates displayed, A full car licence is a provisional licence for this class just like it is for an LGV PSA etc classes. 2, Take the H class with the correct training is the way to go. 3, If you can allways have a commander with you, They can see more than you ! a must in tight areas depending on what you are driving MBT,Scorpion etc the vision from the driving positions is very different. 4, Rubber pads reduce the risk of damage to the road surface as john says in his post " steel tracks are VERY slippy on wet roads so you have to take it very slow to avoid losing all steering and braking." I have been with john on the road in his and it can be scary when you try to stop it just keeps sliding like in a car on sheet ice. One of the things you get when driving any armoured vehicle on the road is respect from most of the road users. Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 jack answers to you summery 1, yes you can drive a tracked vehicle on the road with your car licence with a class H licence holder supervising with you and "L" plates displayed, A full car licence is a provisional licence for this class just like it is for an LGV PSA etc classes. Al, I would have to disagree with you there, the info that the DVLA sent to me says otherwise, I'll try a dig out the letter but it went something like this.. The Law says... If you have a provisional licence to drive a car or other vehicle (except a motorbike):- you must display ‘L’ plates on the front and back of the vehicle (or ‘D’ plates in Wales) you must not drive on a motorway if the vehicle has more than one seat, you must have someone with you whenever you are driving. The person supervising you must sit in the front passenger seat and be fit to drive the vehicle, for example, they must not be drunk. They must also be aged 21 or over and have had a full driving licence for at least three years. The letter sent to me stated something like this.. If the tracked vehicle in question only has one front seat it is classed as a single seater & as such the driver can drive unsupervised on a provisional licence, the idea of being supervised is that someone can correct the steering if the driver gets in trouble.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 Got speaking to a chap at the local 1940's do at Upwood from the East of England Tank museum living history group who drives one of there Bren Carriers said that if its under 4 tons then its ok to drive on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 4. I thought the weight limit for metal tracks on the road was 5tons?? that's what I was told.. I believe Lee is right - this 5 ton limit rings bells too.... As some one else said there is nothing, per se, that says you can't run bigger BUT you better have a big - and full - wallet as the local councils will be hitting you with the repair bills!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 23, 2006 Author Share Posted December 23, 2006 So do I need to summarise the summery :dunno: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooTallMike Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 To reply to Jack's point 3 - a Commander is not a legal requirement but may be commonsense depending on the type of vehicle. Safariswing: I'm interested that an insurance company enquired about a commander and voice comms. Since 'commander' is not recognised in UK civilian traffic law and is not a legal requirement what right do they have to enquire about this? Also was there any indication of these 'requirements' in your insurance policy? How would they have proceeded if you hadn't had one or other? They can't invalidate your insurance if you are not breaking the law. As a side point to open up a new area of debate: anyone who is 'commanding' should have an appreciation for the vehicle and its capabilities, for example, there's no value in plonking your 10-year old up there as a hatch ornament and expecting them to guide you in traffic. In civilian law the driver is responsible for the vehicle and if they have an accident it is their fault even if someone else incorrectly gave them an "all clear" for a maneouvre. In military law the commander is responsible and the driver follows his instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooTallMike Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 There are so many things that bother me about that that I'm not even going to begin. Can you tell me who you're insured with? We've got the CVRTs with Roadsure. Of course I wouldn't mention your particular case to anyone but I'd like to find out what their company policy is on this. Next time I've got the Spartan out I'm going to park a Transit van next to it and work out the difference in directly visible area and that swept by the mirrors. It'll be interesting to compare them. Apart from not being able to check a blind spot over one's shoulder I don't envisage a big difference. (I must reiterate that I do agree that using a commander can be commonsense. I am merely interested in all this from a legal point of view since any prosecution can only result from a judge's interpretation of traffic law.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pearson Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 4. I thought the weight limit for metal tracks on the road was 5tons?? that's what I was told.. No idea where this might come from. My tank is 17 tons, been roadregistered for 18 years, weight is in the log book and has never been a query. The only point of restriction is damge caused and that is obviously partly dependant upon weight but driving technique and also steering system makes more difference. About the need for commanders: have you ever seen a Valentine drivers view???? I certainly NEVER drive without a commander and an intercom (except when it doesn't work!). Also, although not so necessary, I always use one with the Saracen and Ferret. Drive the Dingo alone however!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 23, 2006 Author Share Posted December 23, 2006 Right! Could someone of 'higher' authority please summerise for me as now I am completely lost. :cry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 I'm no "higher authority" but I'll have a go: 1. You can drive a tracked vehicle on the road subject to meeting points #2 and #3 below. 2. You need to take an Class H test if it's a "track-laying vehicle steered by it's tracks" - i.e fully tracked, not half-track (although an Activ Sno-Cat doesn't need it because it has a steering wheel?) 3. You need a crew of at least a Driver + a Commander who have audio contact between each other to crew the tracked vehicle for safety - both yours and other road users - this covers you with the insurers in case of incidents 4. Ideally a tracked vehicle would have rubber track pads but can be used without although any road damage so caused would be billed to you by the relevant local authorities. 5. Seemingly no weight limit applies - although I'm not sure 60 tons of MBT would be too welcome!! Hows that ????? (Lee - heard from Terry in Kent today - apparently he has "the ideal vehicle for some one my size" :whistle: ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 (Lee - heard from Terry in Kent today - apparently he has "the ideal vehicle for some one my size" :whistle: ) So you ae going to take your test on a Dozer then ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 So you ae going to take your test on a Dozer then ;-) Nah... Given my bulk - it's got to be one of the crawlers they used for the Saturn 5's!!!! :-D :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 I suspect it will be an M548. http://www.forces.gc.ca/admmat/dglepm/wes/wes_equipments/m548.jpg[/img] I have driven the M667 which is similar and they are very easy to drive. The 548 has a proper cab so is much more comfortable than a CVRT. If you fancy one: http://dbase.evems.com:1066/FMPro?-db=inventory2.fp5&-format=jacksons%2fdetails2004.htm&-lay=detail&-op=cn&Abbrev=afvs&-recid=32992&-find= Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 He had one up for sale on eBay this year, didn't reach the reserve.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 25, 2006 Author Share Posted December 25, 2006 Right I think I am getting it :dunno: So I don't have to go back through all of the posts - how much does it cost to take my H licence and what vehicle can I use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 Right I think I am getting it :dunno: So I don't have to go back through all of the posts - how much does it cost to take my H licence and what vehicle can I use? Easy mate..............get a Jeep :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 25, 2006 Author Share Posted December 25, 2006 Easy mate..............get a Jeep :-D ..nah, I like pain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 ..nah, I like pain! Get a PW and be a man......unlike some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 Right I think I am getting it :dunno: So I don't have to go back through all of the posts - how much does it cost to take my H licence and what vehicle can I use? How much does it cost??? - Looks like anywhere between £245 and £1500 depending on where you go What vehicle can you use?? - Any track laying vehicle steered by it's tracks Easy mate..............get a Jeep :-D No tracks......... :-D What Jack needs is a nice 1970's MBT in his front garden!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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