rnixartillery Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 nice , a 17 Pr is on my "wanted" list as well , tough , haven't seen any for sale over here , and it's not getting any better , Belgian weapons law is changing once again , more kit will be forbidden for collectors:embarrassed::embarrassed::embarrassed: Unfortunately 17 pdr's very rarely become available for sale so its the sort of item you really have to go and look for and believe me 'they aint easy to find'. Rob.............rnixartillery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25 pounder Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 That ' s exactly what I thought about it Rob , very scarce nowadays ! I know about 2 of them used as gate guards at the Oosterbeek museum in Holland , :red:, I think they should be kept inside to prevent further damage ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 That ' s exactly what I thought about it Rob , very scarce nowadays !I know about 2 of them used as gate guards at the Oosterbeek museum in Holland , :red:, I think they should be kept inside to prevent further damage ! There is actually three at the museum Philip,Hanno is the man who can shed more info on these 17 pdr's but yes you are quite right they should be preserved Rob....................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 On the subject of normal 17pdrs, were they of any great use in Normandy, over the 6pdr with APDS? I have read a few accounts of 17pdrs being abandoned as they took too long to re position in a fluid battle at short distances. The 17 Pdrs mounted in AFVs were indispensable without doubt, but the towed units? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 On the subject of normal 17pdrs, were they of any great use in Normandy, over the 6pdr with APDS? I have read a few accounts of 17pdrs being abandoned as they took too long to re position in a fluid battle at short distances. The 17 Pdrs mounted in AFVs were indispensable without doubt, but the towed units? It always was, and no doubt still will be an argument over towed gun artillery. ie line of sight shooting. Do you use small and light get in close or bigger and stand off. The German tactic was to base heavy 88 mm guns as a backstop before the Panzers went in. This allowed withdrawal under artillery cover, but held up advance till the guns moved forward. The US tank killers never answered the question and were always swopping emphasis from towed to self proppeled. The towed gun if dug into defence was firing over pre surveyed ground from a solid position but if over run could not withdraw. The self proppeled guns could keep up with the AFV's but if they outstripped infantary support were vunrable, especially in closed in ground or built up areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 On the subject of normal 17pdrs, were they of any great use in Normandy, over the 6pdr with APDS? I have read a few accounts of 17pdrs being abandoned as they took too long to re position in a fluid battle at short distances. The 17 Pdrs mounted in AFVs were indispensable without doubt, but the towed units? Well, the 17 pdr was the only British anti-tank gun that could deliver enough firepower to cope with the German armour at the time at long range however at close quarters I could imagine the 17 pdr being slow to put into action which is why the 6 pdr came into its own especially in the Bocage region where fighting was from hedgrow to hedgrow. Going back to the Oosterbeek guns,the airborne division was given 16 17 pdr's and Morris tractors ,all of which were carried in Hamilcar Gliders during Operation Market Garden, However only 11 guns made it into action. The 17 pdr is a very large and heavy Anti-Tank gun but it seemed to be worth the effort dropping them into the Netherlands. Rob..................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattie Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 There is actually three at the museum Philip,Hanno is the man who can shed more info on these 17 pdr's but yes you are quite right they should be preserved Rob....................rnixartillery. Theres one at Larkhill outside but with a good layer of paint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 I am constantly on the look out for anything 17 pdr and came up trumps last week and bought a very nice wooden ammo box dated 1944 although it did come from Australia,postage was OTT :cry: But not many wooden boxes have survived so it was worth the cost. Also picked up a very nice fired 17 pdr Smoke round,Quite unusual.I nomally only collect ordnance with unfired drive bands but made the exception with this one being so rare ! Rob....................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim gray Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Whilst the poor old donar gun has taken a bashing i have no doubt that Rob will achieve his aim ( scuse the pun) but i would suggest ordering in BOC now with a healthy supply of gas!!! I know youv'e done it before but remember to bend the knees and keep a straight back when shifting that gun tube. regards Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Whilst the poor old donar gun has taken a bashing i have no doubt that Rob will achieve his aim ( scuse the pun) but i would suggest ordering in BOC now with a healthy supply of gas!!! I know youv'e done it before but remember to bend the knees and keep a straight back when shifting that gun tube. regards Tim Quite right Tim, Infact I picked up two fresh bottles of Oxy last weekend and I'm pretty sure I might need some more ! :saluting: Rob...................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I was in the old Weirs building today, checking up on a couple of pumps. Still there in Cathcart, now trading as CLYDE UNION, but the original sheds, buildings, and layouts pretty much the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 [ATTACH=CONFIG]58942[/ATTACH] I was in the old Weirs building today, checking up on a couple of pumps. Still there in Cathcart, now trading as CLYDE UNION, but the original sheds, buildings, and layouts pretty much the same. Gordon,is the premesis still as big as it was or has it been sold off over the years for development ? Rob..............rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Bit of a mixed bag there. The original works is still there and working, but a '60s extension is being turned into a school of some sorts. Weirs did / do have a large repair facility in Alloa, and large chunks of that have been sold of for housing, but not the Cathcart works. Buildings have large riveted steel frames, typical of between-the wars construction. The original layout must have been quite sensible but it's been chopped and changed around. No original fitments, but I seem to recall my guide said something about a 25 pounder had come back to the plant not many years ago for refurbishment. Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25 pounder Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 That's one nice round you've got there Rob , never seen any of them around over here , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Well after several phone calls and a few headaches the doner 17 pdr arrived this morning from Portsmouth.......................... in several pieces ! :shocked:. The majority of the carriage will be scrapped as it really is 'beyond redemption',I will strip it of any salvagable parts,patterns etc just for future reference. I already had a spare carriage so the gun was dropped onto this for ease of moving plus it makes a good bed to strip the gun down,plenty of heat required for this job I think :sweat: More to follow. Rob...................rnixartillery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 and more..................................................... Rob...................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Yea, I've got a couple of 17 pdr carriages about the place aswell, don't we all.... Great unique project Rob, remember if you come across any 6 pdrs........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 After a few set backs and lost time over the weekend I managed to break the gun down with the exception of the Block which is being a bitch to move. The part I thought I would have problems with was the Breech ring however this turned out to be the easiest part to remove ! I had the idea in my head for some reason that the ring was on an interupted screw thread like the 25 pdr but it turned out to be a complete thread so the scaffold tube came into play. The carriage is no more than a box of bits now as most of it is scrap but some parts might be going over to Oz as a parts trade with another collector I know. next job is to seperate the recouperator from the cradle, I was thinking about splitting the cradle but on reflection I think I will try to remove it some other way to save the cradle for the next 17 pdr project ! Plenty more to do............................pics attached Rob...........................rnixartillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Rob, With all that scafold pole turning. You will end up with Arm Muscles like Whatney's Beer Barrels Mate!..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I have been reading this thread with interest, but not at all qualified to respond. However Tim Gray mentioned a 2 pdr A/T. So without meaning to hijack the thread. hear are a few of shots of mine. Rob does know about it and would concur... not many in private hands in UK. I acquired it about 15 years ago when it was repatriated after being found derelict in South Africa. I can provide information about it's resurrection and future proposals as it remains a work in progress......Or should I start another thread? Ron (south coast UK). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Nice 2 pdr Ron. Rob, Did the Phesant only see service in North Africa, and as such will you be painting it sand colour...are there any hints at the original scheme on your 25pdr style Phesant carridge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Ron, The 2 pdr looks well with the locker fitted :thumbsup:,I think you came up trumps with that thanks to Tim. I was looking at the other gun that came in with yours a while ago but unfortunately it is not for sale ! ........................... and the man has two. :wow: Rob.....................rnixartillery. Ps............Very envious ! Edited March 29, 2012 by rnixartillery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Yes Rob! Chuffed to bits to get the ammo locker from Australia. This is it (before and after). I believe the other 2 pdrs went to the Muckelbourgh Collection. I'm looking for an elevation wheel now. Ron Edited March 29, 2012 by Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim gray Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I have been reading this thread with interest, but not at all qualified to respond. However Tim Gray mentioned a 2 pdr A/T. So without meaning to hijack the thread. hear are a few of shots of mine. Rob does know about it and would concur... not many in private hands in UK. I acquired it about 15 years ago when it was repatriated after being found derelict in South Africa. I can provide information about it's resurrection and future proposals as it remains a work in progress......Or should I start another thread? Ron (south coast UK). Hellllllooooooo you gorgous thing you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tis indeed a hansom wench..........however Ron........what on earth possesed you to dress the lady in Green with a birthday of 1941?? One has to assume you surely meant to order a fetching shade of sand and whence complete to gift the gorgous lady to the Tim Gray North Africa Trust. ( PM me for contact details!!) Regards Tim (now a fetching shade of jealouse green, not attractive) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Nice 2 pdr Ron.Rob, Did the Phesant only see service in North Africa, and as such will you be painting it sand colour...are there any hints at the original scheme on your 25pdr style Phesant carridge? Good Question Alastair. 150 Pheasants were assembled by Weir Ltd and sent out to North Africa in late 42 but by mid 43 the newly designed 17 pdr carriages were being manufactured. My research has indicated that around 100 pheasants were dismantled in 1943 but with the speed of things approximately 50 guns went on to fight in Italy. So the answer to your question is that all the guns were all initially painted in light stone but the guns that went on to fight further could well have been re-painted Light earth or even Khaki ! Rob.....................rnixartillery. Edited March 29, 2012 by rnixartillery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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