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Radek

Welbike

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Hi,

can somebody tell me what are differences between Welbike Mk.I and Mk.II

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i dont know all the differences but the main one is that the mark ones dont have the holes for a rear fender. One the mark1s i think there was a piece of twisted metal just behind the seat pole but on the mk2s there was a straight piece of metal with 2 holes

 

Mk1 Contract number: 294/23/S789, WD numbers: C4658474 to C4659686 , Frame numbers: 14 to 1213

 

Mk2 Series 1 and 2 Contract numbers 294/23/S1649 and 294/23S1946, WD Numbers C5152014 to C5154654, Frame Numbers: 1214 to 3954.

 

These are the main differences i know of that are obvious

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Likewise I don't know all the differences. But apart from the MK1 not having a rear fender. The petrol tank pressings are different at the rear, and therefore also the frame attachment points. Also the first pattern MK1 tanks didn't have the filler cap on the left tank, which necessitated the removal of the pump from the right hand tank to fill with fuel. Also I don't think the MK1's had a contract plate as fitted to the MK2's on the plate at the bottom of saddle tube. Here is my MK1.

Ron

Copy (2) of Lightweights 002.jpg

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Can somebody tell me if is possible that the welbike engine has No. S 586/55**

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All the above info is correct.......main differences in summary are the MK1's had different fuel tanks in respect of fittings (pump, etc) and some early frames lacked a lower plate (or "splash shield") beneath.......

 

Not certain about the contract plate absence on MK1's though......by 1943 virtually all WD motorcycles carried these......mind you, the first Flying Flea contract of 1943 had the contract plate wrapped around the left upper-rear frame tube, secured by a single rivet......subsequent production saw this repositioned to the tip of the rear mudguard, half-way between the tip and the tail light......

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Not certain about the contract plate absence on MK1's though.

 

I have seen a few mk1s without contract plates, and they were definitely original. There were also no holes for the rivets.

e.g. i think this one didnt have a contract plate

 

 

 

I have also seen mk1s with contract plates: http://www.harko.at/welbike/

$(KGrHqQOKocE5s9Ypg2UBOm6)BM1rw~~60_12.jpg

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My own Welbike is from the first contract and has no holes for the contract plate. I assume there would be no need for a contract plate until the second contract where there might have been some changes or upgrading and therefore a different parts list. So it could be that the first 1200 didn't have a plate?

I have seen lots of these JDL engines with different numbers, quite often prefixed XXA. I think these were normally used in Autocycles and mostly have longer manifolds and a cast ally expansion box. Funny what a difference in value a simple 'E' can make. Of course I have also seen them re-stamped. But that usually results in the loss of the embossed 'No' at the start of the number. Ron

saddle plate 001.jpg

Edited by Ron

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It is entirely possible that contract plates weren't fitted to the first contract.....but also possible that the plate was simply wrapped around a frame rail, similar to early WD/RE's, and a very easy thing to lose quickly, especially considering the greater abuse probably handed out to a Welbike....:D

 

It is thought that the "XXE" prefix was applied to the WD engines to signify the military version built with greater tolerances than normal to permit full-use of the power unit from new, not generally the case with most other engines that required a degree of running-in......

 

Villiers often applied odd letters to WD engines.....for example, the James ML (usually) has the suffix "A" after the engine number to signify a revised crankcase breather arrangement....

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not sure if it means much of anything but a lot of engine casings and parts etc from mine had the number "57" stamped on it

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You just reminded me of that and looking through my pictures, I can see a small 24 just to the left of 'JUNIOR' and on the crankcase below that 27 or 37?

Photographic evidence required regarding the wrap around contract plate. I'd love to buy one of Rob Millers repro's. Ron

Lightweights 082.jpg

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You just reminded me of that and looking through my pictures, I can see a small 24 just to the left of 'JUNIOR' and on the crankcase below that 27 or 37?

Photographic evidence required regarding the wrap around contract plate. I'd love to buy one of Rob Millers repro's. Ron

 

Find the well-known photo of the para lifting up a WD/RE in front of him for the camera......you can see the contract plate wrapped around the left-upper rear frame rail......! :D (his hernia followed later......:wow:)

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Oh yes Steve I know about the wrap around on a Flea. A friend of mine had a WDC with a plate wrapped round one of the rear stays. He swears it's original. So definitely a RE thing. Ron

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Steve I just remembered this from Jan Vandevelde's report. I'm sure he won't mind me displaying it here.

 

Also anyone who hasn't already, and owns or is researching anything to do with WD Royal Enfield's. Should contact Jan on wd.register@gmail.com

 

Ron

Scan-120212-0001.jpg

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What kind of prefix is this?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]57132[/ATTACH]

 

I have seen what i think are civilian models with an XX number before so it may be a civvy version. There are other ways to see if an engine could be a welbike one.

 

Where the decompresser plug goes (opposite the spark plug) there should be a "Blank" with no decompresser, here is one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Welbike-Decompressor-Plug-WW2-Para-Folding-Motor-Cycle-Parts-Accessories-/170768360711?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item27c2966507#ht_500wt_1413

 

I believe the original carbs were brass, the civvy ones were either plated or another metal. On the carb, the srewed on top, if it is a welbike one, should have the grip in a XXX formation, on the civvy ones it was just straight lines lllll. Carps are quite often replaced so it is fairly normal.

 

Also look for remains of brown or green paint on the engine as the engines were painted in the factories. Try looking with a torch or someting behind the fly wheel, that is the only place where paint remained on mine

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Find the well-known photo of the para lifting up a WD/RE in front of him for the camera......you can see the contract plate wrapped around the left-upper rear frame rail......! :D (his hernia followed later......:wow:)

 

Hi Steve,

 

Hey, I'd never noticed that detail before!

 

Anairbornesoldierliftsalightweightmotorcycle22April1944.png

 

This is a contract S/1945 Flea, later contracts (S/6602 and S/7112) had their contract plates riveted to the rear mudguard, as the following pictures show:

 

S6602REWD-RE.jpg

 

S7112REWD-RE.jpg

 

More useless information about these contract plates: :o)

 

- All "C" prefix contracts had a copper plate, all "S" prefix contracts had a steel contract plate.

- One exception: the Welbike contract S/1946 is an "S" prefix contract with a copper contract plate.

- This S/1946 contract plate is slightly shorter than the other copper contract plates...

 

S1946Welbike_2-1.jpg

 

C14499MatchlessG3L.jpg

 

Jan

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Hi Jan ! Hoping you would come along !!!! Many thanks for the great info and I hope you are well ! Steve (ps - early contract plates are brass, not copper !!! - later are pressed steel or tin.....)

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