deadline Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I you have that much free rust in your cooling system then whats in the radiator tubes? The cylinder jacket? For the gentlemen that are dismissing a dirty cooling system, or WORSE, saying its NORMAL please stop, stop right now. Its obvious that at some point the coolant was simply water, or the antifreeze was so old that its lost its properties and allowed the cast iron to rust. The rust is turns to sediment which clogs the passages in the block and radiator tubes. If you think its normal, then you really need to read up on PROPER coolant maintenance. My 42 GPW, 43 GMC and 66 M35A2's innards look like the day they were cast. A proper flush (nothing you buy off the shelf at a store is worth anything.. you need professional chemicals and a air agitation system) is needed. Your innards should look like cast iron (grayish). You may go another month, year, or decade with the condition its in now.. there is no way to tell. But you hare having cooling issues now, might as well fix it and be done with it. Not sure what it costs to tow a CCKW in the UK, but I've talked to several heavy tow tuck company's in the area (I work in distribution, so having a tow driver on the yard is not an uncommon occurrence) and none of them would even start up the wrecker for less than $500, plus mileage (Approx $15 per mile... BOTH WAYS for a 15,000 lb cckw). So a few quid for a flush, pressure check and refill is the cheaper of the two options, in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 Hi vulture,when you re-fit the thermostat make sure you clean out the small circular recess in the top of the thermostat housing. The new thermostat goes in next ,( the circular plate sits flush with the top of the thermostat housing ).the new gasket then goes on top , followed by the top half of the housing. From memory the inner hole of the gasket is slightly smaller than the round disc of the thermostat and helps to hold it in place. The inside of my gmc engine looked rusty but after it had been flushed through a few times it was ok. One thing i did find was that dirt had collected at the back of the engine and had to be removed by removing the drain plug on the rear of the block ( driver,s side ), and poking around with a length of stiffish wire. The block had to be flushed again to wash the muck out through the drain hole,i also flushed the block out by inserting the hose in the drain hole. Don,t forget to replace the drain plug... Fill up with 50/50 pre-mixed blue anti-freeze, i used bluecoll which has given no trouble. I put as much liquid as i could into the engine/radiator, then started the engine to allow it to circulate and to give any excess air a chance to escape,( i have a thermostat fitted which has a "jiggle pin " in it to allow air to escape from the block.) i then topped up the radiator until it was just visible in the neck of the radiator. I then replaced the cap, making sure it was sealing correctly.after a while the excess water vented itself from the tube on the side of the radiator ,stopping when the radiator had found it,s " own level " i always make a point of filling the radiator as described with 50/50 pre-mix and let the radiator vent itself. Don,t forget to flush the radiator as well, i took mine off, sealed the bottom opening with rags, left the radiator cap on,poured in 2 litres of de-scaler, followed with boiling water until full and sealed the top hole up with rags. This was left overnight and flushed several times the next day. Hope this helps. Steve Journeyman :thanx:for your thoughts, much appreciated . Good to have a clear steer on the gasket question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) I you have that much free rust in your cooling system then whats in the radiator tubes? The cylinder jacket? For the gentlemen that are dismissing a dirty cooling system, or WORSE, saying its NORMAL please stop, stop right now. Its obvious that at some point the coolant was simply water, or the antifreeze was so old that its lost its properties and allowed the cast iron to rust. The rust is turns to sediment which clogs the passages in the block and radiator tubes. If you think its normal, then you really need to read up on PROPER coolant maintenance. My 42 GPW, 43 GMC and 66 M35A2's innards look like the day they were cast. A proper flush (nothing you buy off the shelf at a store is worth anything.. you need professional chemicals and a air agitation system) is needed. Your innards should look like cast iron (grayish). You may go another month, year, or decade with the condition its in now.. there is no way to tell. But you hare having cooling issues now, might as well fix it and be done with it. Not sure what it costs to tow a CCKW in the UK, but I've talked to several heavy tow tuck company's in the area (I work in distribution, so having a tow driver on the yard is not an uncommon occurrence) and none of them would even start up the wrecker for less than $500, plus mileage (Approx $15 per mile... BOTH WAYS for a 15,000 lb cckw). So a few quid for a flush, pressure check and refill is the cheaper of the two options, in my book. I'm taking my car the local garage for some work tomorrow' I'll see what they have to hand. I could always opt for Bars Flush Cooling System Cleaner from my local Halfords, although from what you say, a harsher clean might be a better long-term solution. A grey cast iron look to the insides, is certainly something to aspire to. I'm with a recovery company called Flux Recovery. For the annual sum of £32 they provide home start and road-side assistance and recovery on the truck. Admittedly there is a £3,000 limit on the costs they will swallow in a year, but that is a lot of recovery activity ! :-) Given that I've already been recovered once this year when an oil pipe failed, I've already had value for money ! Kind regards Edited January 22, 2012 by Vulture To add hyper-link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I can't find anywhere in this thread that it says the condition is NORMAL, if you read it properly Deadline, or Paul as I believe is your name, what people have said is they have seen systems in similar or worse condition and have advised thorough cleaning. Whilst I appreciate you are trying to help you must realise that there are others on here who have had vast experience of vehicles over many years and your attitude towards these people I feel is rather rude and ill mannered. HMVF is known as 'The friendly forum', please lets keep it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadline Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Apologies if I came off to harsh, but please understand that sometimes what I read doesn't really translate well... or I miss some of the nuances of the post. I am very surprised (if I read it correctly) that you can get a CCKW towed for 30GBP. That seems like it would not even cover the diesel fuel cost to drive to a disabled CCKW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 insurance company in uk adrian flux offer breakdown cover for a year for 32 quid mines combined with my ferret road insurance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Apologies if I came off to harsh, but please understand that sometimes what I read doesn't really translate well... or I miss some of the nuances of the post. I am very surprised (if I read it correctly) that you can get a CCKW towed for 30GBP. That seems like it would not even cover the diesel fuel cost to drive to a disabled CCKW. Thank you on behalf of all. If you were to pay the recovery company directly it would be much more expensive, however in this country some nationwide agencies offer a membership scheme which is much cheaper also some insurance companies offer recovery as part of the policy or as an addition for an extra fee. This, of course is paid annually in advance whether the service is used or not. Hope this makes it clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) As for flushing product, I'd recommend this one. http://www.autocruisers.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=41_67&products_id=402&zenid=f3b699573f5f094a6cf11af430be4a33 The Forte stuff is not cheap but it defimitly moves the crud. Also seen suggestions to use Bio automatic washing powder and I know Tesco dishwasher tablets will clean years of black tea stains out of a stainless steel flask. Edited January 23, 2012 by Tony B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOURNEYMAN Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hi vulture, you,re welcome... My gmc has now completed nearly two years running since sorting out the radiator/block. I will change the anti-freeze before our first run-out to york in april as it will have been in the engine for about two years, the inside of the radiator ( that i can see ) is still as clean as the day it was re-fitted.by the way, i remember seeing your truck at hunmanby a few years ago. From memory it looks a lot better now than when i saw it , i think it had been standing for a long time and looked a bit rough. Nice to see it back on the road and to know it,s gone to a good home. Best wishes steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hi vulture,you,re welcome... My gmc has now completed nearly two years running since sorting out the radiator/block. I will change the anti-freeze before our first run-out to york in april as it will have been in the engine for about two years, the inside of the radiator ( that i can see ) is still as clean as the day it was re-fitted.by the way, i remember seeing your truck at hunmanby a few years ago. From memory it looks a lot better now than when i saw it , i think it had been standing for a long time and looked a bit rough. Nice to see it back on the road and to know it's gone to a good home. Best wishes steve. Steve Had planned to spend an hour or so on the truck today, but pressure or work and my boy being laid up with some lousy vomiting bug he picked up from school scuppered my plans sadly.... Not sure if I'll get time tomorrow to doing anything, plus the weather forecast for this part of the country is heavy rain . If I can I'll drop by Rex Ward on Friday and pick up a bottom hose on my way home, and have a go at the truck at the weekend. Yes, it looked a bit tired and unloved when I first picked it up at Hunmanby with its six different shades of grey, but a bit of TLC, a repaint, six new tyres, new canvas doors and cab canvas and its looking quite a bit smarter. The seats are really really tired so I'm getting some new ones made by Allied Forces, which I pick up middle of next month. Main expenditure after that will be me new canvas for the cargo body, but I'm pretty much out of funds now, so I'll have to save up for a bit for that ! LOL Lots of servicing projects I want to potter on with. Can't wait for the better weather and longer days to come back Kind regards Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 As for flushing product, I'd recommend this one. http://www.autocruisers.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=41_67&products_id=402&zenid=f3b699573f5f094a6cf11af430be4a33 The Forte stuff is not cheap but it defimitly moves the crud. Also seen suggestions to use Bio automatic washing powder and I know Tesco dishwasher tablets will clean years of black tea stains out of a stainless steel flask. Tony Those are some excellent ideas for cleaning the system ! I may well give some of them a try, I especially like the dishwater tablet one ! LOL Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) A successful day here at the Vulture's Roost ! :dancinggirls:. In spite of the overnight snow, I managed to get out and fit the Thermostat and new Top Hose. It all went fine, and on firing the engine up, after a short period we had temperature showing on the gauge ! It stayed stable at this for about 15 minutes, and no leaks, so everything is good . Took a short video of the engine running in the O degree temperature this afternoon. Here's a quick puzzle for you... :-). Can you spot what surprised a NOOB :n00b: like myself.....? :nut: [video=youtube_share;HBHl7zQvAYo] I'll post the answer tomorrow night (P.S. The purists shouldn't take this too seriously) Kind regards to all Ian Edited February 5, 2012 by Vulture Change photo size Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Can't say I'm very impressed with the fuel line routeing, bit close to the fan and the filter directly over the exhaust manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Do you mean that plastic fuel filter that looks like it might be brittle and liable to split in two at any moment, Degsy? :shocked: Is the answer the air in the fuel filter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 Can't say I'm very impressed with the fuel line routeing, bit close to the fan and the filter directly over the exhaust manual. Degsy Yes, I suppose the filter is not in a great spot, I might add it to the (long) list of things to do.... :-). But that's not what surprised me of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Do you mean that plastic fuel filter that looks like it might be brittle and liable to split in two at any moment, Degsy? :shocked: Is the answer the air in the fuel filter? Yep, does look a bit manky Tony:whistle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 pleased its all sorted amazing the difference a working thermostat makes we often put up with faulty ones for to long! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 ...... Can you spot what surprised a NOOB :n00b: like myself.....? :nut: Ian The iced-up carburettor base maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 as long as its running like it should. :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) The iced-up carburettor base maybe? Is the CORRECT answer ! :clap: :thumbsup: I have never seen that before, is it a common occurance in cold weather ? Edited February 7, 2012 by Vulture Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 yes it is carb icing v bad on my ferret cold wet day u have to pull over and let carb thaw ice remedy dont drive it in cold wet weather! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadline Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Is your exhaust manifold heat control valve set properly? Page 198 of the TM9-801 A free copy is available at: http://www.tm9-801.com/tm9-801/index.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Cubed Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Gentlemen Anyway, the top hose comes off after a short fight, and the top housing unbolts without difficulty. This is what we find......... WTF ? No Thermostat... Has everyone missed the fact that there was not a stat in there in the first place as the pic above suggests !!!!! If this was the case why did it suddenly start over cooling ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 no not missed it, it was cold day when he started truck no temp rise on gauge as cold day/short trip when engine off after running normal to get a temprise as no cooling air heat soak from engine, may be last used it had been warmer days more traffic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Without a thermostat the water will be circulating on full flow from start-up, and will take a fair time to warm up (if ever with some engine installations!). With a thermostat fitted it would initially not circulate around the block, allowing the engine to warm up quickly. Many vehicle engines would probably run too cold without a thermostat fitted. Remember if the water temp drops too low during use the thermostat will begin to close, thus regulating water flow and cooling capacity. An example being all those old tractors which used to run all day in winter with either a radiator curtain or a bit of Griff66's cardboard covering the entire rad Edited February 7, 2012 by N.O.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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