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Masseyboy89

Is there a way of dating my sten gun?

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The bible on the subject is a book called the 'Sten Machine Carbine'.

 

You can order it through any library but they will make a small charge if they don't have it within your County.

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Can you put a pic on? there are ways of getting a round about date but i will need to see a picture

 

Don't let Jack see this, he will want to start "HMVF Online Dating" if we are not carefull.:shake:

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The Mk3 Came into production in 1943 and was only produced in wartime so that narrows the date down a bit, but that is all i know about the Mk3s.

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E74169 is the 574,164th Mk3 off the Lines Brothers production line, the S68 is their wartime contractor code.

 

Lines Brothers being the Triang toy makers if I recall :)

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Ok, Just gone through my books and found the following, The 1st order for 500,000 guns was received in January 1942, they gave them selves 5 weeks to train the increased work force so that takes them to mid Feb. The first order was completed with in 1 year so they had reached gun Serial number E5 (1-99,999 A1-A99,999 etc.) by approx Feb 1943. A second order for 500,000 guns was awarded to LB, however this was cancelled after 376,794 guns had been completed

 

They were producing 1500 guns per day at that time so if I'm correct, your gun would be from the first week in April (Give or take) 1943.

 

Total LB production was 876,794 although official records state 876,886, a 92 gun diffrence. So the last serial number produced should be G76,786 or G76,878 which would make it Mid Sept 1943.

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I guess that after almost 70 years it would be almost impossible to discover were, or to whom it was issued?

It has certainly seen some action in its life. When was it likely to have been taken out of active military service, shortly after the war?

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Amazing info! cheers!

tell me .....were they the only plant producing Stens?

........ the reason I ask is...876,000 is an incredible figure..and if they weren't the only plant making Stens....??

Any ideas just how many Stens (roughly ) were made in total by all factories before production finished??? (and incidentally when did they stop making the Sten?)

and finally.........

..where the hell are they all now ? haha!:D

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Theres a couple of things I can tell from looking at it. 1 is that it dosn't appear to have gone to Finland as many did, and 2, it hasn't remained in British use and more than likely not in Indian use either.

 

I think there were approx 4 million STEN of all marks produced. There were a number of assemblers, Lines Brothers, Longbranch, and a number of Royal Ordnace factories as well as a small number or derivatives in Aus and NZ. The thing with the STEN is that there were litterly Hundreds of manufacturers making parts to be sent to assembly plants so STEN serial abc1234 could be produced with totally different manufacturers parts to serial abc1235. The only way to identify who actually made the parts to the gun, would be to look for the codes or logos of companies and ID them. Lines Brothers did make a number of parts them selves, in fact they probably made more individual parts than anyone else.

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Lines Brothers being the Triang toy makers if I recall :)

Yes they were. Lines were also responsible for the development of the manufacturing design and tooling for the Sten. The Singer Sewing Machine company also made parts, but I don't know if they made complete guns. I met a very old lady in Jersey who had worked at Triang making Stens.

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Singer assembled all Mk1 STENs from parts produced all over the UK, Lines Brothers provided many parts and when they were shown a example of a STEN mk1, they thought no,no,no, thats not how it should be done and redesigned it with mass production using stampings in mind and so the Mk3 evolved. At the same time as this, it was known that the Mk1 was to complicated for fast production and many sections requested a STEN which was easier to break down for packing and concealment and so the Mk2 was born. So the Mk1 to 3 were produced at the same time for a period.

 

This is my Singer STEN Mk1, it is an original and not one of the copies that are around, there are a number of ways to identify a original, people are being cought out by these repros so just ask if your considering buying one. There was a dealer selling one recently for over £2000 and it was a copy made from Mk2 parts, he wouldn't have it untill I pointed out the Indian markings and where the Mk2 parts had been modified for a Mk1. It had a SOLD addition to the advert on his web site the next day so I don't know if a unsuspecting buyer had bought it or if he had removed/returned it.

 

1.jpg

Edited by Chris Hall

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fascinating stuff Chris, thank you very much!

 

One thing I have noticed with my MK3 is that when you hold the gun up and look down the sights, there is a noticeable bend in the body off it, it seems to begin when the actual barrel of the gun would begin, or thereabouts.

 

It curves slightly towards the mag on the left hand side. Would I be right in believing that this is when the gun has warped from getting too hot while being fired? How would this affect the action of the weapon? unfortunately it is a new spec so it doesn't do anything now, I would have thought that due to the bend in it, there is a higher probability of it jamming due to binding?

 

Was warping/cooling an issue with these guns? to me it looks like there is little or no airflow around the barrel. How reliable where they?

 

Even today there is a lot of carbon in the gun.

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..where the hell are they all now ? haha!:D

 

I often think that!!! and why is it that a select few survived the test of time? Are they guns that were 'brought back' by servicemen and subsequently found by a family member some years later and deactivated? Was that allowed at the time?

I think my sten was deactivated in 2002 I can't remember the exact time without looking at the cert. - but what often makes me wonder, is the fact that it is a nearly 70year old gun, well and truly obsolete - but it has only been deactivated 10years.... where was it previous to that, and what was it doing? I am seeing a lot of 'new spec' deactivation's on 'antique' guns like this one - it seems bizarre to me that they weren't found and deactivated yeeeeears ago? :???

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I can't remember if I've posted these before, but if not these pictures show (if I remember correctly) a Polish resistance Sten gun factory. The exhibit is in the Polish army museum in Warsaw.

 

I'm afraid the photo's aren't great as I had to take a bit of an angle to avoid reflections from the glass and bright lights.

DSCF5244-small.jpg

DSCF5245-sml.jpg

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I often think that!!! and why is it that a select few survived the test of time? Are they guns that were 'brought back' by servicemen and subsequently found by a family member some years later and deactivated? Was that allowed at the time?

I think my sten was deactivated in 2002 I can't remember the exact time without looking at the cert. - but what often makes me wonder, is the fact that it is a nearly 70year old gun, well and truly obsolete - but it has only been deactivated 10years.... where was it previous to that, and what was it doing? I am seeing a lot of 'new spec' deactivation's on 'antique' guns like this one - it seems bizarre to me that they weren't found and deactivated yeeeeears ago? :???

with the so many thousands made and so many of them being 'delivered' to various Partisans etc there must be blooming hundreds of them stashed away in garden sheds & attics in France / Poland / Greece etc :)

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STENs maybe old but they still work and so many are only just being released from reserve. The current lot of STENs are ex finish guns that went to Africa and have recently come back. You will notice that hundreds of them have replica stocks as they were missing when imported. Others have simply been chopped up because they had become obsolete and were cheap, after all they were the first disposable gun.

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HAPPY EASTER....!

To revive this thread on a slightly different note, I'm after some (a bloody lot!!) of help in identifying a load of sten mags I have purchased. I have managed to ID some of the common ones but most I can't find.

Can anyone help if I give the factory codes and symbols please?

Also what does I.C.R.1 mean that is stamped on 90% of them regardless of manufacturers code?

 

Many thanks

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HAPPY EASTER....!

To revive this thread on a slightly different note, I'm after some (a bloody lot!!) of help in identifying a load of sten mags I have purchased. I have managed to ID some of the common ones but most I can't find.

Can anyone help if I give the factory codes and symbols please?

Also what does I.C.R.1 mean that is stamped on 90% of them regardless of manufacturers code?

 

Many thanks

 

Have you tried Military Surplus Collectors Forums: http://www.milsurps.com/index.php

 

Loads of knowledgeable 'gun' folks on there, so there's a good chance you'll get the answers you need (I asked the same question about some Bren mags I got a couple of years ago).

 

 

Kevin

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Also what does I.C.R.1 mean that is stamped on 90% of them regardless of manufacturers code?

 

 

 

I believe this indicates they have been modified by Indian Central Railways for a better feed with a new follower and capacity of 20 rounds.

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I believe this indicates they have been modified by Indian Central Railways for a better feed with a new follower and capacity of 20 rounds.

 

That's correct, they will have 2 brass rods inside the mag and the ends will show at the bottom and near the top (But flattened off).

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That's correct, they will have 2 brass rods inside the mag and the ends will show at the bottom and near the top (But flattened off).

Any ideas roughly what date this was done please? I understand that this would make for smoother feed in the mag preventing jams.

I have a few without the conversion too.

Still looking for the manufacture codes if anyone can help.

I have about 90 mags, lots of different codes, about 20 in all. The internet has identified about half dozen, just want to see if any interesting one's in there!

Two are Israeli (star of David stamp) I have few different constructed (folded and pressed box) by same factories, Austin etc

Any help greatly appreciated.

If anyone is looking for a particular make or style mag, drop me a line and see what I have.

 

Thanks

 

Paul

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