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Muskrat

'75 Series 3 109' FFR - 49 GF 85 21/3

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Hello: New to HMVF - New to my Landy - 91126241C 49GF85 ( 1 year + ) Question : Vehicle was stripped of all paint to bare metal except for the wings before I bought her. When stripping the rest ( so I can paint back again to a time of her former self ), I found Vehicle Marking 21/3 on it. Previous owner said it was in Bosnia stored in a paddock (or lightly used?), along with two others basically unused until Demobilized and down the line brought to the US - I would like to take his word for it as fact. Does anyone out there recognize this unit and its history? Was anybody attached said unit? And if I am lucky, does anybody recall this particular vehicle as early Series 111's were probably not commonplace during SFOR,IFOR, etc... Thank you.

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I found Vehicle Marking 21/3 on it.

 

First of all welcome.

 

So was this on the top edge a wing facing forwards? I would expect it to be in white letters one inch high. Was there anything else in front of it eg LOND 21/3 or SOW 21/3 etc as this would define the Command (area) it was in & then one could define the unit. Or was it large & somewhere else?

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Thank you for the response: The white elements were forward facing on drivers side (RHD), 1" tall and centered fairly well on downward curve of the wing above the headlight. The sticker was only big enough to hold the 21/3 (sticker was about 4 inches long). Could there have been another separate sticker in front of that, that designated it further, or did they make those stick-ons with said information as a single unit as you responded, ie: Sow 21/3, Lon 21/3? All other identifying marks, along with the entire body except wings, were sadly chemically stripped to bare metal and lost - As a footnote, it would of been nice had the previous owner had the where-with-all to at least document what was found during the 'undressing' of the years of paint for future reference.

 

With that being said, when I purchased it off Ebay, the description stated that it was in Britain ( used up about 7,000 miles ), then shipped and stored (lightly used?) in Bosnia and sat unused for years (he stated about twenty in a paddock with a few others - could that be?). It was then brought to the United States. When I bought her, she only had 17,655 original miles (odometer completely accurate). - How many '75 Series 111 MOD, 109' FFRs were actually shipped over there (if the previous information is true) for any type of NATO operation when the Defenders were already in service. If this is the case, mine would be somewhat unique, with others somewhere out there, in that they lasted that long into service. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

 

Chassis No. 91126241C - Vehicle No. 49GF85 - Cont. No WV. 11702 - Code. No. 1720.0778

 

Lastly, I have found Clive's articles highly informative ( Painting and marking of Post-War British vehicles ) which I stumbled on, on my search for information and which led me to sign up with HMVF to deepen my knowledge. I do realize that if I pay and go through the right people; I can trace some deployment history of vehicle, but I am starting here to pool as much as I can about the previous said British unit markings before I go that route hoping someone out there will recognize it and make my search easier - I have written many letters in doing so.

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Welcome from a landrover owner, plenty of helpful info and people on this site

 

Mark

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The marking was a one-piece transfer.

 

App2795.jpg

 

This is North East District & 220 is the Army School of Mechanical Transport which was on my Pig. Sometimes these markings were stenciled on a wing or front bumperette & the rear body.

 

Thinking about it yours probably wouldn't have had a District Marking as just 21/3 which is a Brigade numbering. I think 21 is the Royal Corps of Signals. So being a FFR makes sense.

 

So we just have to work out which RS Unit was /3.

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if you wanted the history of the landrover contact the rlc museum for a price they will give you a copy of its records

their address is

 

The Royal Logistic Corps Museum

The Princess Royal Barracks

Deepcut

Surrey

GU16 6RW

hope this helps

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As I have delved deeper into this odyssey for many moons, I found a decent list on the computer of British forces that were deployed and served in Bosnia as part of the UN, EU, and NATO, along with some personal accounts of their missions per unit. The list covers Joint Units, Army, Navy, RAF, and the Royal Marines - "Bosnia - A Frustrating Mission" - British units deployed to Bosnia -.

 

This list covers the Royal Signals - 21 Signals Regt. (Air Support), 21 Signal personnel (220 Sqn. and 244(?) Sqn.) in support of 1310 flight RAF, and 845 Naval Air Sqn.. I will look into this further.

 

Also found - And could this be a possibility - 21 Brigade Support Sqn. 3, Close Support (CS) Regt. Royal Logistic Corp (RLC), which roots go back to the Royal Army Ordinance Corp*, along with the Royal Corp of Transport, Royal Pioneer Corp, Army Catering, and the Royal Engineers Postal Courier Service, until all were unified into the RLC in 1993.

 

* Dates:1988-1993 - Royal Army Ordinance Corp - BAOR (British Army of the Rhine) / UKMF Field Force Unit (United Kingdom Mobile Force) Circa 1988 - HQ 2 Ord. Bn located in Catterick (UKMF) part of the 2nd Inf. Div.

 

21 Ord. Co. was part of the 2nd Ord. Bn., which the first (21 Ord. Co.) became part of the 21 Brigade Support Sqn. and 12 Artillery Support Sq. (possible part of 100 Field Reg. Royal Artillery?) RLC when all units were reorganized together as one - If this might all seem confusing at first, its because it is, somehow these are all married, and please correct me if I am wrong on any of this...

 

If this be the case, could the 21/3 come out of all this Clive as part of the 21 (UK) Brigade Support Squadron (21BSS) RLC and the (3) refers to the 3 Close Support Regt. RLC?

 

Are there any 'Loggies' out there that would know? It seems it would also make sense to have an FFR in a close support role for the artillery to call in re-supply, coordinates, (air support?), and even your friend on the next ridge over for a hot drink...

 

How these numbers come about I have not a clue - Is there a magical list out there? Or as David Ives smartly suggests, contact the RLC directly and pay for the historical records - I found a person who can do it all for 62.50 British (is this a reasonable price? Living in the States if have no idea...) - I would love to have a detailed statement and the official card on the military life of my Rover (I want to paint her back to a time of her former self, but two-tone disruptive patterns and accurate markings bounce around in my senapse of accuracies, and at times, keeps me from having a good nights sleep (is this a normal HMV owner problem?))

 

At least in doing what I am doing by throwing this information out there and asking for advice and help, I am learning more than just why the Hardtop still slowly leaks in the front after I have tried everything except a full removal, a re-rivet and reseal... I have learned that after all, it is a Land Rover!

 

Thanking you all in advance - Muskrat - Prescott, Arizona

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