R Cubed Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I have been talking to a friend of mine today about building trailers, and in his words, if you are going to build a trailer do it before the end of this year, it needs to be finished and on the road by the end of the year... As of next year ANY new trailers will have to have TYPE APPROVAL you will have to show stress calcs for the design, use approved nuts bolts and use approved equipment which will be fitted on the trailer as these bits then become part of the whole unit, this even includes the jockey wheel, it is kept for several weeks and will cost lots !!!! you all have been warned. This still applies to companies who make trailers too so they will just pass on the costs to the customer... This all sounds as this is the next step in more costs to the Vehicle user. Anyone heard any more about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topdog Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Yep, I can really see certain trailer using sections of the community complying with this. If a stolen trailer is being used which does not comply - do you think the original owner could be sued? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Cubed Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Yep, I can really see certain trailer using sections of the community complying with this. If a stolen trailer is being used which does not comply - do you think the original owner could be sued? :shocked: This does only seem to apply to new built trailers or shall we say "home built" as proper companies who make trailers to sell will have to comply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listerdiesel Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) We brought forward our plans for the new engine trailer cum RV when we saw this legislation being talked about in 2010, so we got it on the road in June, still have a bit to do on the RV side. Ours will be voluntarily tested, we don't expect to have any issues. Read the table in this link, slowly: http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/vehicletype/trailers.asp Took it over to Holland for the Nuenen engine show: Lots of interest from the Germans and Dutch guys, they can't build their own kit, and nor can we after the end of this year. Peter Edited October 20, 2011 by listerdiesel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dodd Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I realise this is an old thread, but for people still reading it I thought I would try and put the record straight. I work with the type approval legislation and assist manufacturers to comply, its quite complicated but I will try to illustrate it with some likely scenarios. Firstly the Type Approval Directive (or more correctly collection of directives) brings all EU members into line. If you are the manufacturer of an existing range of trailers you will have until the 29th of October 2012 to ensure the vehicle is tested and compliant, otherwise legally you cant sell it. If you design a new trailer today it has to be compliant straight away (this has been the case since 2009) before you can place it on the market. As most of you wont be manufacturers in your own right (I am making assumptions) and are probably only going to manufacture a trailer for your own use, and/or modify a trailer you buy, it is unlikely that you will go down the Whole vehicle type approval route, instead you will go for the National Small series approval (NSSTA), or Individual Vehicle approval. Both of these are less technically demanding than the Whole vehicle approval but will still require you to provide Technical data and have the vehicle tested by VCA and/or VOSA. Scenario 1 You build a trailer from scratch. In most cases you will be using components from well known manufacturers, Couplings from Bradley, Drawbars from Alko, etc etc, these are what are known as seperate technical units and will have their own approvals, your job here is to ensure that you select the right component for the job and collect the approvals together in your own "manufacturers " file for presentation to Swansea so it can be tested against this "dossier" by VOSA. You will also need to make sure you comply with all the relevant parts of the directive and provide info on each to show how you have done it. And yes this does include drawbar calcs but they are quite straight forward. If you want a list of what you need to comply with let me know. Scenario 2 You buy a trailer that is already approved, but you need to modify it. If the modifications do not affect any of the existing approvals you dont need to do anything, so for example if you buy a box van and you equip it with racking and a portable toilet (for arguments sake) you're Ok. However if you put a couple of glazed windows in it, you will have to ensure that they are subjected to approval. If you have a flatbed and want to move the rear lights you can only move them to a position within the orignal manufacturers approval, otherwise they have to be reapproved. Scenario 3 You buy an old trailer (pre type approval) but refurbish it with new lights and coupling etc, you must replace these units with type approved devices, but at the moment as this would be seen as a repair it would not require approval. I could go on , but I am sure if you bothered to read this far you are bored now. Its difficult to be spepicific whilst generalising, but the bottom line is that you shouldnt be put off self building if you are prepared to do it right, and frankly if you are not prepared to do it right , should you be on the road. Incidentaly the living van above looks great, I dont know how much it weighs (obviously has to be under 3500kgs) but you may run into some problems with roadside spot checks by the likes of RDW in Holland etc as it was manufactured after 2009 and probably doesnt have a plate on it, Indvidual vehicle approval gives some protection against this (even though it is only good for the UK) and it may be worth getting it done. Lighting is always a dead giveaway, I cant see on the photo but it should have Reversing lights etc, I have experience of being stopped with a 16oo kg trailer in Holland without reversing lights a few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I could go on , but I am sure if you bothered to read this far you are bored now. Not bored at all Paul, properly informed input is just what we're after....:tup:: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Cubed Posted May 26, 2012 Author Share Posted May 26, 2012 Yes, do go on this is what these sort of forums are all about If people get board they probably arnt interested in building a trailer ect those who might self build or modify will then know that this is the place for accurate references ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big ray Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Not bored at all Paul, properly informed input is just what we're after....:tup:: I agree totally, thanks for taking the time to type it all up......... much appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Importantly you put in plain language not legalise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dodd Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the feedback, glad to be of some help. Dont get put off by the Red tape, get some advice. The thing to remember about the EU legislation is that it is almost always reasonably well drafted and has taken into consideration the views of most concerned parties. The difficulty arises when the legislation appears to want to make you do something you might not think you should have to. The renegade, who ignores it or interprets it in their own way, will often "queer the pitch" for everyone else, which can often mean greater surveillance or restriction. EU rules are almost always to make life just that little bit safer. Now at risk of the next bit sounding a bit like a sales pitch, I am currently in discussion with TuV Rheinland about arranging some seminars for vehicle converters ( IE Catering trailers or exhibition units) to ensure they understand their requirements, when we know where these will be I will post details, I am sure if anyone wanted to come along, they would be welcome. Once we have done them I can post the presentation material (I will check with the Administrators first), I am also developing an interactive spreadsheet for managing the data required for a Type approval submission to the authorities (there would be a modest cost for this, and it isnt finished yet) but again when It is I will get in touch. I undertake what is called a gap analysis for my corporate clients, to assess what is and is not compliant on their vehicles, if you wanted something like this done professionally you would need to contact me outside of this site, however if you want to just get an opinion (and thats all it could be) just post a photo or PM me and I will see what I can do. Maybe if there is enough of a requirement I could create a guide, if that would help. So, all the best, and dont let the legislation keep you awake at night. No actually thinking about it , it is the best cure for insomnia I know of. Edited May 26, 2012 by Paul Dodd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dodd Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Just a bit of an update for anyone interested. If you are building a Turntable steer trailer like the one in the photograph above, when it comes to braking they are not allowed (and haven't been for some years) to have Over-Run (inertia) brakes (UNECE Reg 13), this means that they cannot be Type approved and also shouldnt be able to gain an IVA or SVA. This may also mean that the driver of a vehicle equipped in this way that is stopped could be prosecuted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Cubed Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 So if not allowed to use an overrun braking system, that would only leave air brakes, what other options are there ? Would you be able to clarify the new overall max width is now 2.55 mtrs and max length excluding drawbar is 7 mtrs, is there any limitations on these sizes if towing by different vehicles excluding the obvious weight implications, so say you have a 90 defender Land Rover caperble of towing 3500Kgs would the above sizes be able to be towed by this vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 So if not allowed to use an overrun braking system, that would only leave air brakes, what other options are there ? . Electric brakes ? Its been done before. Think some of the wartime artillery had Warner electric braking systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 A lot of agricultural trailers have hydraulic brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Just a bit of an update for anyone interested.If you are building a Turntable steer trailer like the one in the photograph above, when it comes to braking they are not allowed (and haven't been for some years) to have Over-Run (inertia) brakes (UNECE Reg 13), this means that they cannot be Type approved and also shouldnt be able to gain an IVA or SVA. This may also mean that the driver of a vehicle equipped in this way that is stopped could be prosecuted. ====== Then , his turntable is his "Dolly" , read onwards from - However, if "dollies" are being used for the transportaion of perfectly functioning vehicles -- etc -- http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/dft-information-sheets/a-frames-and-dollies.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dodd Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 So if not allowed to use an overrun braking system, that would only leave air brakes, what other options are there ? Would you be able to clarify the new overall max width is now 2.55 mtrs and max length excluding drawbar is 7 mtrs, is there any limitations on these sizes if towing by different vehicles excluding the obvious weight implications, so say you have a 90 defender Land Rover caperble of towing 3500Kgs would the above sizes be able to be towed by this vehicle. The Options would be as you say a continuous train system either Pneumatic, or Hydraulic. Electric is an option (US and Australian caravans etc ) but it is not favoured, and would be difficult to get through an approval due to the reaction times etc. Hydraulic is often used on Agricultural vehicles but again it is difficult to maintain the required retardation forces and as such Agricultural vehicles with hydraulic brake trailers should be limited to 30KPH. Pneumatic is the favourite, so if you are towing with a truck that is air equipped it shouldnt be a problem. A land rover or similar would present problems. As for Width and Length, a trailer can be up to 2.55m width (2.6 if it is refrigerated) , if the Tow vehicle is under 3500kg then the length is limited to 7m excluding the drawbar. If the Tow vehicle is greater than 3500kg then 12m excluding the drawbar (It must have a min of 4 wheels). The overall train length must be no more than 18m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dodd Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Electric brakes ? Its been done before. Think some of the wartime artillery had Warner electric braking systems There are Electric braking systems available, but as yet I havent seen any approved for use here (The EU rules allow them by the way). Problems in approval I have seen are, Usually they do not incorporate the Parking or breakaway function required by the legislation, and because they tend to take a feed from the brake light feed of the towing vehicle the reaction time does not comply. However I would say that in operation from what I have seen they are quite impressive and dont think it will be long before we see them here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dodd Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 ====== Then , his turntable is his "Dolly" , read onwards from - However, if "dollies" are being used for the transportaion of perfectly functioning vehicles -- etc -- http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/dft-information-sheets/a-frames-and-dollies.pdf The turntable on a drawbar trailer is not a Dolly, these are defined in one piece of legislation ( I cant remember which bit atm) but basically a Dolly is a trailer in its own right (and as such needs Type approval), in Agricultural use it is a device used for the interconnection of a Semi trailer with a Tow vehicle, as such it supports a proportion of the trailer load (there is a limit) and it should be designed to accomodate that load IE over 750kg it needs brakes etc. On the road a Dolly is only supposed to be used for recovery purposes, (IE You cant use it to tow your Impreza to a track day) , on its own it does not need brakes just for recovery, if a dolly was to be used as a trailer then the car or what ever is attached to it then form a trailer, as such if the combination is over 750kg , then the trailer and the road wheels of the car which are touching the road need to be functioning. If you used a Dolly to connect the Tow vehicle to a trailer , then by rights the Trailer would then become a Semi trailer, and as such would need to have continuous brakes. You then get into the requirements of , suspension, ABS and EBS. .....Minefield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 (edited) This dft publication , there has been IIRC two prior versions that had a signature , the latest no longer has. They earlier version invited queries - I have much correspondence. I asked for data on any Emperical testing they had completed , had the dft done any testing - zilch. Don't forget - such as the Dixon-Bate "Recovery dolly" had no brakes at all , then came the braked "Recovery dolly" by manufacturers such as Armitage Trailer - you can't compare chalk / cheese. The dft have outdated "opinions" and that is all they have, then they publish half-baked "Guidance Notes". You will not see such as these "dollies" holding up traffic at the legal but reduced speed on motorways LoL Edited October 29, 2012 by ruxy spelin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Cubed Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 The Options would be as you say a continuous train system either Pneumatic, or Hydraulic. Electric is an option (US and Australian caravans etc ) but it is not favoured, and would be difficult to get through an approval due to the reaction times etc. Hydraulic is often used on Agricultural vehicles but again it is difficult to maintain the required retardation forces and as such Agricultural vehicles with hydraulic brake trailers should be limited to 30KPH. Pneumatic is the favourite, so if you are towing with a truck that is air equipped it shouldnt be a problem. A land rover or similar would present problems. As for Width and Length, a trailer can be up to 2.55m width (2.6 if it is refrigerated) , if the Tow vehicle is under 3500kg then the length is limited to 7m excluding the drawbar. If the Tow vehicle is greater than 3500kg then 12m excluding the drawbar (It must have a min of 4 wheels). The overall train length must be no more than 18m Do you have any idea why the drawbar is excluded in the trailer length ? Does the overall train length include the drawbar ? So you have a tow vehicle 6 mtrs long and a 1mtr drawbar on the trailer and then trailer is 12 mtrs long, would the train length be 18 or 19 mtrs ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 (edited) Do you have any idea why the drawbar is excluded in the trailer length ? Does the overall train length include the drawbar ? So you have a tow vehicle 6 mtrs long and a 1mtr drawbar on the trailer and then trailer is 12 mtrs long, would the train length be 18 or 19 mtrs ? depends where the conection piont is could be 17 metre. but overall length means overall length eg back to front Edited October 29, 2012 by cosrec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dodd Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Do you have any idea why the drawbar is excluded in the trailer length ? Does the overall train length include the drawbar ? So you have a tow vehicle 6 mtrs long and a 1mtr drawbar on the trailer and then trailer is 12 mtrs long, would the train length be 18 or 19 mtrs ? The trailer lengths always refer to the Loading area, there is a maximum length of drawbar permissable (I cant remember what the calc is atm), but if you think about it with a drawbar trailer the connection point could be some distance forward of the extreme rear of the towing vehicle. When you measure the train length it is from the extreme front of the towing vehicle to the rear of the trailer . The max for a single trailer is 18.35m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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