Sten Mk2 return spring

[Graham]

I would like to buy a return spring / receiver spring for my sten, does anyone know a supplier in the UK? Thanks, Graham

[Marmite!!]

They are classed as a Section 5 part so no RFD would sell you one..

[Chris Hall]

They cant be a section 5 part, its a spring. I've got 5 old spec STENs and the springs can be removed.

[Marmite!!]

They cant be a section 5 part, its a spring. I've got 5 old spec STENs and the springs can be removed.

 

New spec deativation states springs should be removed & destroyed, a spring in an old spec deac would be ok if kept with the gun buy if you were to but a spare spring you would require an FAC to purchase legaly.

 

Home Office Firearms Guidance..

Component parts

 

 

 

 

 

13.69

 

 

 

 

 

Component parts of firearms are also

subject to certificate control, and may be authorised if a shooter needs replacement or interchangeable parts. Spare cylinders for muzzle-loading revolvers are not used innational target shooting disciplines and should not normally be authorised. It should be noted, however, that some cased sets, both antique and modern reproductions, will contain a spare cylinder, or cylinders, and these may be properly included on certificate for both possession and use.

 

 

 

 

 

13.70

 

 

 

 

 

The term “component part” may be held to include (i) the barrel, chamber,cylinder, (ii) frame, body or receiver, (iii)breech, block, bolt or other mechanism for containing the charge at the rear of the chamber (iv), any other part of the firearm upon which the pressure caused by firing the weapon impinges directly. Magazines, sights and furniture are not considered component parts.

 

New Spec Deactivation Standard for a Sterling (Sten would be the same...)

 

 

DE-ACTIVATION TYPE 5(A)Type STERLING SUB-MACHINE GUN, CARBINE PISTOLAND ANY DESIGN VARIANTGeneral

 

 

 

 

 

(a) Ensure essential components are unsuitable for use in any otherfirearm.(b) Slot through chamber wall. Slot full length of covered sectionof barrel. Pin barrel to body through chamber. Weld in place.© Mark barrel and receiver (near number if possible).

 

 

 

 

 

Specific

 

 

 

 

 

(1) Weld de-activated barrel securely to body with ring of weld atbreech end. Grind off ends of Allen screw heads at muzzle andweld cap to end of body.(2) Remove bolt with spring and guide and destroy them withcutting torch. Submit remains of these to the Proof House,together with de-activated firearm, for inspection and, in thecase of the remains of the destroyed components, rentention.(3) Weld piece of hollow tubing with circular weld run at rear ofbody to simulate presence of bolt when viewed throughejection port. Cut away side of tube next to magazine openingso as to allow Proof House inspection of welds. Bolt-retractinghandle may be attached to tubing. Replace end closure capnormally so as to allow Proof House inspection of welds.(4) Remove trigger-grouping from pistol grip. Cut through searwith torch and fuse components together. Grouping must beremovable to allow Proof House inspection.

 

 

 

 

 

(5) The magazine must be de-activated.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Marmite!!

[ford 369]

I have 2 new spec stens and both have moving bolts and return springs which can be removed by stripping the stock etc,I assume there must be a difference between sten and stirling with reguard to this,incidentally both guns were deaced by different companies and one proofed at Birmingham and the other in London

Nigel

[Graham]

Thank you for the advice - that's a no then? Cheers, Graham

[Tony B]

I have 2 new spec stens and both have moving bolts and return springs which can be removed by stripping the stock etc,I assume there must be a difference between sten and stirling with reguard to this,incidentally both guns were deaced by different companies and one proofed at Birmingham and the other in London

Nigel

 

Work will have obviously been done on the bolts to make them comply, and possibly two or three coils cut out of the springs. Section 5 and various other legal statutes cover parts and accessories of a firearm for the quite simple reason two or three people could carry a seperate part of a firearm, then re assemble later. Not that I would condone or recommend it, but any old coil spring would surley fill the space.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Tony B

[ferretfixer]

As understood it, a spring was alway the ONLY part NOT to be considered a Firearm componant.

(Dont know why!) Possibly because you could get springs commercially. That looked the same size, & would do jobs on other equipment.

For example, the old bench press attachment for black & decker drills. The return spring from them would look exactly the same as one in sten or other SMG class of weapon

 

 

 

Springs comercially are very cheap from engineering suppliers. Sizes available are standard sizes.

 

If you remove the mainspring from a Sterling, the Butt assembly will NOT be held in the open position!

If you remove the mainspring froma sten, the Butt will fall off! No pressure against the internal rear 'Dimpled cap' that retains the Butt!...................:nut:

[Chris Suslowicz]

Hmmm, I think the "Sterling deactivation instructions" are more like a "we don't want anyone to have these, so we'll make it economically unfeasible to do it", rather than a case of rendering it incapable of being converted back without considerable effort and a fully equipped machine shop.

 

That said, I'd disagree with some of the interpretation:

 

"The term “component part” may be held to include (i) the barrel, chamber,cylinder, (ii) frame, body or receiver, (iii)breech, block, bolt or other mechanism for containing the charge at the rear of the chamber (iv), any other part of the firearm upon which the pressure caused by firing the weapon impinges directly. Magazines, sights and furniture are not considered component parts."

 

Note "impinges directly" - that does not include the recoil spring, since the breech block is between the chamber and the spring. AFAIK, the act used to refer to 'proofed part' - barrel, receiver and breech mechanism, and not the ancillaries - just the bits that contained the chamber pressure when the weapon fired.

 

As for the Sterling breech assembly, I think that had a separate firing pin and spring, and suspect that is what was required to be destroyed, not the recoil spring (which (as noted) prevents the folding stock locking into place if it's not present.

 

Someone else's comment about "three people carrying the necessary parts" falls down on the obvious point: they're each carrying a proofed part of a prohibited weapon, whether assembled or not, and would all be guilty of an offence under section 5 (plus a likely charge of Conspiracy if the prosecution wanted to gild the lily). Anyone carrying the ammunition is likewise liable.

 

I'd consider the stock, sights, end caps and return spring to be exempt from the act. The receiver (just a piece of tubing) will have to be weakened to comply with the act, since it holds all the parts together and is proofed with them and carries the serial number. The trigger group is an oddity: it's not a proofed part, welding it into a solid lump but leaving it removable seems a _very_ strange decision (anyone with the tooling and expertise to remanufacture the barrel and breech should have little difficulty in making a trigger assembly)?

 

The requirement to deactivate the magizine is also bizarre: militaria dealers have been selling them for decades!

 

Just my 2d worth.

 

IANAL[1]

 

Chris. (I doubt that I'd ever consider buying a de-ac, and _certainly_ not a new-spec one, as it's just a waste of good money _and_ a piece of history/precision engineering.)

[1] I am not a lawyer.

 

[Chris Suslowicz]

A further thought:

 

" (iv), any other part of the firearm upon which the pressure caused by firing the weapon impinges directly".

 

That will refer to the gas system in a gas-operated weapon like the Bren, etc., so they will require the gas piston to be cut and the cylinder it runs in slotted, I would suspect.

 

Chris.

(I am not an armourer, either.)

[Tony B]

Gas piston is removed or welded in place.

[Chris Suslowicz]

OK, one rummage later, this American website shows the "kit of parts" they sell to people wanting to remanufacture (once they've completed all the paperwork and got a Federal license to do so, I hope) a Sterling from a cut-up one.

 

http://yhst-5672966975550.stores.yahoo.net/mp40partsset4476.html

 

You can clearly see that there are _two_ springs involved: the outer recoil spring (which is presumably not subject to destruction when deactivated according to Home Office guidelines) and the inner spring and its guide (I assume this operates the firing pin) that are considered part of the breech mechanism, and so have to be destroyed.

 

Chris. (Switching back to WS19 mode now.)

[Chris Hall]

Just to add to the quoted deac guide lines. I also have a copy of those guidelines and I know there out of date. They date from about 1997 and have now changed in some details i.e. the magazines, they no longer need to be deactivated, I think they saw sence! There are some more changes on their way, I have 4 deactivated Bren barrels, all legal with deac certs, they were part of a small batch put through Birmingham proof house by a well known company. They currently arn't putting any more through untill the new guideline is finalised which should be soon.

[ferretfixer]

A further thought:

 

" (iv), any other part of the firearm upon which the pressure caused by firing the weapon impinges directly".

That will refer to the gas system in a gas-operated weapon like the Bren, etc., so they will require the gas piston to be cut and the cylinder it runs in slotted, I would suspect.

Chris.

(I am not an armourer, either.)

 

The ACPO guidelines mention Pressure Bearing componants including any Gas affected parts. IE: Gas Plugs, Pistons Etc.

You wouldnt have to slot a gas cylinder if it's fitted to the Deact. On it's own, it's a part & needs deactivating by either slotting Or welding inside (Prefered) so a piston cannot be inserted.

[ferretfixer]

OK, one rummage later, this American website shows the "kit of parts" they sell to people wanting to remanufacture (once they've completed all the paperwork and got a Federal license to do so, I hope) a Sterling from a cut-up one.

 

http://yhst-5672966975550.stores.yahoo.net/mp40partsset4476.html

 

You can clearly see that there are _two_ springs involved: the outer recoil spring (which is presumably not subject to destruction when deactivated according to Home Office guidelines) and the inner spring and its guide (I assume this operates the firing pin) that are considered part of the breech mechanism, and so have to be destroyed.

 

Chris. (Switching back to WS19 mode now.)

 

The inner spring does NOT operate the firing pin in this case. The Firing pin is a 'Pip' machined on the bolt face. This inner spring & the metal Guide section. Is to keep spring pressure on the cocking handle under tension. This is to eliminate rattle & subsequent falling out by itself. When stripping, of the cocking handle.

[ford 369]

Just to add to the quoted deac guide lines. I also have a copy of those guidelines and I know there out of date. They date from about 1997 and have now changed in some details i.e. the magazines, they no longer need to be deactivated, I think they saw sence! There are some more changes on their way, I have 4 deactivated Bren barrels, all legal with deac certs, they were part of a small batch put through Birmingham proof house by a well known company. They currently arn't putting any more through untill the new guideline is finalised which should be soon.

 

dont want to sell one of those barrels do you its one of the only things missing from my bren set? was the well known company worldwide arms? as I know they had some earlier this year but have none at present

Nigel

[ferretfixer]

dont want to sell one of those barrels do you its one of the only things missing from my bren set? was the well known company worldwide arms? as I know they had some earlier this year but have none at present

Nigel

 

Patience! Just about every Bren that was Imported into the UK came with a spare Barrel! A LOT got scrapped because of the Spec for Deacts stating that the Barrel 'Had to be welded OR Pinned & welded to the Receiver'.

The spare Barrels were then redundant & therefore scrap!

BUT, a LOT have survived & are with dealers. They are awaiting clarification on the Spec that is going to be required at the London Proof House for Deacing & ticketing as a Legal Deact Barrel.

Brimingham had previously passed barrels for brens & ZB 30 Barrels alone.

The Proof master at London thinks he is a Law unto Himself & can dicatate as he pleases! BUT, even HE has seen sense & is Drafting specs that he will approve soon. It's only a matter of time!

Think of that, case precident set for: Bren, Mg 34, MG 42, Browning .30" Cal, Browning .50" Cal,GPMG,......Just about ANY LMG that has an exchangable Barrel. SHOULD in thoery get passed if they are cut to HIS Spec.

Think of all that EXTRA revenue that will be generated by Passing a Lump of metal that has been effectively Deactivated forever @ £45 Quid a time!.........