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David B.

British WW2 10 cwt GS Trailer

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We have just bought for one of these trailers for restoration to go behind the jeep and I'm hoping that someone has for sale or can give me a lead towards finding the correct tow hitch assembly which we are missing. In the last week I have managed to find out a fair bit of information about these trailers but there does not seem to be a lot out there,especially good pictures of them in service.

 

The trailer we have (the blue one) is reasonably complete but will require all new timber and was made by Orme Evans and Co.-a Wolverhampton firm . Other makers include SS Cars, Reynolds and Reliance and there were probably others.Our original census number was X5422182 and the trailer is a GS MK 11.

Some of these trailers were made with a fixed tailboard and fold down headboard for use with the 4.2 mortar but ours is the GS type with fold down head and tailboards.

 

The tow hitch assembly we need seems also to have been fitted to the 10cwt (lightweight) trailer and differs from the earlier ones in that the tow eye,over run brake and lifting arms are all made as an integral unit - there must be one in the long grass somewhere !

 

As well as the missing tow hitch we need a support leg which could be fabricated and a hub dust cover (Morris 8 ? ) - any vehicle literature and pictures would be gratefully received also.

 

Should anyone be able to help with the right hitch we can pay a decent price for it and any leads or suggestions as to where to look would be gratefully received.

 

Thanks in advance.

David Belcher.

 

 

imm005_5-1.jpg

 

Trailer like ours 10cwt manufactured by Orme Evans.

 

ursel200620061.jpg

 

The tow hitch assembly needed.

 

P1010003.jpg

 

Our "new" trailer.

 

 

10cwt3.jpg

 

A Mk 11 Trailer - SS Cars or Reynolds. The same hitch.

Edited by David B.
Forgot pic.

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David,

 

Great find, hope you find the parts.

 

Wouldn't mind if you quote the source of the pictures you use to illustrate your posting here.

 

Regards,

Hanno Spoelstra

Maple Leaf Up Forum moderator

 

imm005_5.jpg

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Quite a lucky find you have there. Would the lights plug on it match the socket on the Jeep? I am just wondering how difficult it would be to change from one towing vehicle to another.

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Quite a lucky find you have there. Would the lights plug on it match the socket on the Jeep? I am just wondering how difficult it would be to change from one towing vehicle to another.

 

A very apposite question Tim and one I can't answer yet.

 

The Mk 11 trailers had a larger tow hitch - 2 3/16" internal diameter eye size as opposed to 2". This was done to allow use with the standard WD towing eye rather than just a pin and pintle as on the earlier 15cwts. I suppose that if you were changing over from say an MW to an OY then it would not present a problem but clearly the jeep socket is different to anything fitted to British vehicles.

 

I can't find any trace of wiring or lights fitted to our trailer and still have to find out the original specification - perhaps someone can help with this information together with a lead to our other requirements.

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David,

 

Great find, hope you find the parts.

 

Wouldn't mind if you quote the source of the pictures you use to illustrate your posting here.

 

Regards,

Hanno Spoelstra

Maple Leaf Up Forum moderator

 

imm005_5.jpg

 

Delighted to Hanno,

 

The first picture as I'm sure you will remember is one of your own from 2006. Second and fourth came from Arjan Van Der Hoek,respectively 2006 and 1995 I believe and they all appeared in a very informative thread which was started in 2006 in the excellent MLU Forum.

The third picture was my own miserable effort.

 

Thanks for the opportunity to illustrate this post.

 

Regards,

David.

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A very apposite question Tim and one I can't answer yet.

 

The Mk 11 trailers had a larger tow hitch - 2 3/16" internal diameter eye size as opposed to 2". This was done to allow use with the standard WD towing eye rather than just a pin and pintle as on the earlier 15cwts. I suppose that if you were changing over from say an MW to an OY then it would not present a problem but clearly the jeep socket is different to anything fitted to British vehicles.

 

I can't find any trace of wiring or lights fitted to our trailer and still have to find out the original specification - perhaps someone can help with this information together with a lead to our other requirements.

 

David and Tim,

 

British vehicles, inc Jeeps in Brit service, were fitted with a a small lighting socket, similar to a bulb holder, there was a two way switch fitted adjacent and a convoy lamp, the switch would cancel the rear lamp and light the convoy, and vice versa, but maintaining feed to the socket, the trailer also had a rear lamp and convoy lamp along with a two way switch, and if trailer had a tow hook on the back, then another lighting cable socket.

 

There is a recent thread on G503 forum on this same subject.

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David and Tim,

 

British vehicles, inc Jeeps in Brit service, were fitted with a a small lighting socket, similar to a bulb holder, there was a two way switch fitted adjacent and a convoy lamp, the switch would cancel the rear lamp and light the convoy, and vice versa, but maintaining feed to the socket, the trailer also had a rear lamp and convoy lamp along with a two way switch, and if trailer had a tow hook on the back, then another lighting cable socket.

 

There is a recent thread on G503 forum on this same subject.

 

Thanks Richard I'll look for this.

 

I didn't realise all jeeps in British service had lighting mods although it would obvously have been essential for the sake of conforming to convoy regs and trailer use. I wonder then if even the US Willys/Bantam trailer in British use would have been modified to fit in.

 

I have not needed to look for the British plug and socket with the two way switch for some time now are they easily available ?

Another thing on the list of wants,I suppose is a copy of the regs/diagram regarding the jeep wiring modification. Any ideas in this direction ?

 

David.

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Thanks Richard I'll look for this.

 

I didn't realise all jeeps in British service had lighting mods although it would obvously have been essential for the sake of conforming to convoy regs and trailer use. I wonder then if even the US Willys/Bantam trailer in British use would have been modified to fit in.

 

I have not needed to look for the British plug and socket with the two way switch for some time now are they easily available ?

Another thing on the list of wants,I suppose is a copy of the regs/diagram regarding the jeep wiring modification. Any ideas in this direction ?

 

David.

 

Hi David,

 

The plugs and sockets do turn up on stalls at shows, and the 2 way switch is the normal one fitted at the rear of most British vehicles of the period, your K2 should have one. There is a thread currently running on G503 forum on this subject and photos of the bracket and location on a jeep. Thought I had a link to it, will put in a following post.

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Hi David,

 

The plugs and sockets do turn up on stalls at shows, and the 2 way switch is the normal one fitted at the rear of most British vehicles of the period, your K2 should have one. There is a thread currently running on G503 forum on this subject and photos of the bracket and location on a jeep. Thought I had a link to it, will put in a following post.

 

Thanks Richard,

 

I've had a look at the G503 thread and it does illustrate it well.

 

When I did the Jeep in British markings about thirty odd years ago I should have done the whole conversion to British Spec. properly. I should have fitted a trailer socket/convoy light/two way switch unit at the time when all the bits were all easier to find. Now of course its another job to do occasioned by the purchase of the trailer.

 

I did squirrel some stuff away years ago and luckily I have some spare two way switches, a convoy light I think but I will be looking for the trailer plug and socket.

 

The trailer plug and socket has to be added to the wants list now. Any offers or leads for one of these units would be gratefully received but the list is still headed by the trailer tow hitch which we are looking for,illustrated at the beginning of this thread.

 

David.

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The trailer plug and socket has to be added to the wants list now. Any offers or leads for one of these units would be gratefully received but the list is still headed by the trailer tow hitch which we are looking for,illustrated at the beginning of this thread.

 

 

I have seen these sockets turn up at Autojumbles, such as Beaulieu Autojumble. Alternatively, how about Dallas Digout, as a suggestion.

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I have seen these sockets turn up at Autojumbles, such as Beaulieu Autojumble. Alternatively, how about Dallas Digout, as a suggestion.

 

Thanks Robert - it will be the plug and socket which will be more difficult to find than the two-way switch and convoy light.

Unfortunately I don't get weekends off as a rule so would be very happy if anyone sees one at sensible money to grab it for me. Same applies to the tow hitch ,perhaps a quick call to 07860 889524 first though.

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Still no luck yet in finding the required hitch but since starting to look for it all sorts of other questions have been raised about different makers, detail differences and so on. Also I have found that there is a marked lack of in-service photos.

 

I am particularly keen to establish when this one piece tow hitch came into use,I believe certain makers introduced it at different times and that it was retrospectively fitted to "earlier" trailers.

 

The reason it was introduced was to enable the 10cwt (and 10cwt Lightweight) Trailers to be towed behind something other than a Jeep and the earlier 15cwts with pin and pintle hitch. The increase in tow eye internal diameter from 2" to 2 13/16" gave the facility to be used with the standard WD draw bar.

 

Any help at all would be gratefully received in this quest.

 

David.

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Hi David, can't help you with the trailer hitch but I do have a WD vehicle hitch if you need one.

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Hi David, can't help you with the trailer hitch but I do have a WD vehicle hitch if you need one.

 

Thanks Degsy,

 

Can't use a truck tow hook at the moment but really would like to get my hands on the trailer hitch as illustrated at the beginning of this thread.

 

David.

Edited by David B.

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I really am surprised how little information exists about these trailers and how few photos of them are to be seen. Only this evening I've spoken to a collector with a 10cwt mortar trailer with a data plate which quotes the manufacturer as "TEC"- he was unaware who TEC were.

With a little research we've established the maker as being Templewood Equipment Company who were taken into the Rubery Owen group.

His trailer is very similar to the Orme Evans made trailers and there seem to be at least two basic design groups made by different makers.

 

Clive Elliott very kindly posted a diagram of the hitch we are looking for and there are some interesting photos on his thread :-

 

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?26688-Trailer-tow-eye-assembly-10cwt-or1-2-ton

 

If anyone can add any more information or photos,census or maker information please let us know.

 

David.

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I am posting a link to the very informative thread on Maple Leaf Up concerning these trailers on which I have drawn on for a lot of information. The first post by Nick Bullock dates back to 2006 and not too much info has been added since. Has anyone any pictures or info that they could add please ?

 

http://www.Mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6932&highlight=10cwt+trailer

 

Many thanks,

David.

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This is how I connected the lighting on my trailer.

 

DSC00491th.jpg

DSC00493th.jpg

 

I used an original connector to the jeep. Problem was the 'new' rules for trailer (light, indicators and brake) I solved this by using the mass-connection by the towinghook and coupling. I know that some people use a modern connector with 7 wires.

 

DSC00275th.jpg

DSC00265th-1.jpg

DSC00273th.jpg

 

Maybe I can get my hands on another 10 cwt gs trailer. I was told it was modified after the war, but I do have a spare-axle, springs and rims. I also have some other spare-parts, including the old coupling (dismantled)

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Nice to see work on another trailer. Arjan,is this the same trailer that was in the MLU thread of some years ago ? What make is it Reynolds,SS? - Mortar or GS ?

 

We will be making a start on ours as soon as we locate all the bits we need but still aren't sure of finding the tow hitch assembly which is key to it all. We have had a good lead but are still looking for one if anyone can help at all.

 

Other parts we need are the hub dust cap, a couple of support legs and the standard British WW2 "fag end" rear light. We also need a trailer lighting socket to mount on the towing vehicle and the correct plug for the trailer lead. Any help or leads please ?

 

The hub cap was kindly illustrated by Clive Elliott in his thread

 

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?26688-Trailer-tow-eye-assembly-10cwt-or-1-2ton

 

Its believed to be Morris Eight -can anyone confirm this.

 

Any more trailer info or pictures gratefully received.

 

 

This is how I connected the lighting on my trailer.

 

DSC00491th.jpg

DSC00493th.jpg

 

I used an original connector to the jeep. Problem was the 'new' rules for trailer (light, indicators and brake) I solved this by using the mass-connection by the towinghook and coupling. I know that some people use a modern connector with 7 wires.

 

DSC00275th.jpg

DSC00265th-1.jpg

DSC00273th.jpg

 

Maybe I can get my hands on another 10 cwt gs trailer. I was told it was modified after the war, but I do have a spare-axle, springs and rims. I also have some other spare-parts, including the old coupling (dismantled)

Edited by David B.

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The hub cap was kindly illustrated by Clive Elliott in his thread

 

http:hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?26688-Trailer-tow-eye-assembly-10cwt-or-1-2ton

 

Its believed to be Morris Eight -can anyone confirm this.

 

 

David

 

The wheels, I believe, are pre-war Morris wheels (I saw some similar on a Morris van at a show once) so the hub cap could well be a Morris item.

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Thanks Robert,

 

I must try to find documentary evidence of this as the hubs and wheels were used throughout the 10cwt and Lightweight range. I would really like to find the wartime parts list for the 10cwt range as these often list the manufacturer's code which in this case would be MM I think.

I do have a copy of the 1966 dated 10cwt Parts List which in this case does not shed any light on the question of origin.

David.

 

 

David

 

The wheels, I believe, are pre-war Morris wheels (I saw some similar on a Morris van at a show once) so the hub cap could well be a Morris item.

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and the standard British WW2 "fag end" rear light.

 

David, is this the light you need? I'ts not the fag end type but is the standard Lucas T1A tail lamp. NOS but just been sitting around for a few years!

tail.jpg

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David,

 

Those wheels are not a Morris product, they were called Easiclean, possibly made by Joseph Sankey, and supplied from 1930's to Austin, Morris, Wolesley, Morgan, Singer and others.

 

regards, Richard

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David, is this the light you need? I'ts not the fag end type but is the standard Lucas T1A tail lamp. NOS but just been sitting around for a few years!

 

Yes Adrian - thats the one . I was just looking out the Lucas number and I think there was a T1 and a T1A. Haven't worked out the difference yet. Is yours surplus to requirements as I still need one ? Perhaps you could PM me please.

Edited by David B.

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David,

 

Those wheels are not a Morris product, they were called Easiclean, possibly made by Joseph Sankey, and supplied from 1930's to Austin, Morris, Wolesley, Morgan, Singer and others.

 

regards, Richard

 

Morning Richard ,

Question really is,were the trailers fitted with the Morris 8 hub which took the six stud Easiclean wheel ? I just thought that a wartime parts list would give a clue to the origin of the hub and wheel by including the makers name code.

 

Not all Easiclean wheels were six stud fixing as you know, Hillman for example were three only - so that rules them out as the hub manufacturer.

cheers,

David.

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