Ferret Running very rough.

[Duffy]

Just got my new Ferret 02 DA 45. I fire it up and took it around the block...all is great. Upon entering the garage it starts to spit and sputter and finally stalls.

 

After a few trys I could get it started but it ran like shisa and would stall.

 

My initial thoughts were that not all the cylinders were firing. A friend suggested that I check the bango union of the fuel feed pipe to the carb. Remove and clean. It was clean so I cleaned it and reinstalled.

While I was waiting for someone to help me check the fuel flow from the fuel pump I thought I would pull the plugs and have a look. Cylinder no.1 plug wire looked funny.

 

The disk in the plug wire that contacts with the plug was loose and seemed held on with the wrapping that was suppose to cover the metal wire in the cable. I could not find any metal wire. It must be broke off up in the cable. Not sure how it ever ran before? Any thoughts??

 

 

[Diana and Jackie]

Hi,

Do you have a good spark? Check points, condenser. If you can afford it replace the lot with electronic ignition and then forget about it!

:-D

 

Looks like someone has lost spark plug lead bits as well

 

 

The accelerator pump diaphrams and economy device diaphram are suspects as is the carburettor. Clean and check - there are two filters in the carb jets.

 

Champ Spares have all the carb bits - what they will not supply as part of the carb kit are the three seals - at each end of the butterfly spindle and the cold start device spindle which will also need checking.

 

Diana and Jackie

[Duffy]

I haven't check for spark or fuel flow to the carb yet...but I will. It does have an elctronic ignition kit put in. The lead bits I have. When I removed the plug wires the two lead bits were being held together with the fabric wrap that surrounds the wire...except there was no wire showing (see pic). Looking at the plug wire connection on the no 2 cylinder the wire is weaved around the lead bits ensuring a good contact.

[Richard Farrant]

I haven't check for spark or fuel flow to the carb yet...but I will. It does have an elctronic ignition kit put in. The lead bits I have. When I removed the plug wires the two lead bits were being held together with the fabric wrap that surrounds the wire...except there was no wire showing (see pic). Looking at the plug wire connection on the no 2 cylinder the wire is weaved around the lead bits ensuring a good contact.

 

As the porcelain insulator on No2 HT lead is missing, there is every chance the spark is going to earth in there and not sparking the plug. That would be the first thing to fix.

[Duffy]

The second photo shows what I found after rmoving the two plug wires. The one on the right is number 1 and on left number two. You can see the wire wrap fibres sticking out holding on the lead bits. The first shot shows the plug wire with the lead bits and the porcelin removed. There is no wire protruding from the cable...and I don't have enough to cut it back and reconnect to the lead bits with wire. Waiting for nos cables or at least number 1.

[Diana and Jackie]

Makes no sense at all to spend money on electronic ignition and botch the spak plug wiring.

 

If you do have electronic ignition its more than likely that the spark is flashing over to chassis through the poor connections as Richard suggests.

 

You can also check inside the distributor cap for burning as well as on the rotor arm.

 

Our Ferret was botched in may places, we've spent a lot of time and money unbotching it and still have some to go.

 

Diana and Jackie

 

I haven't check for spark or fuel flow to the carb yet...but I will. It does have an elctronic ignition kit put in. The lead bits I have. When I removed the plug wires the two lead bits were being held together with the fabric wrap that surrounds the wire...except there was no wire showing (see pic). Looking at the plug wire connection on the no 2 cylinder the wire is weaved around the lead bits ensuring a good contact.

[griff66]

yes people will find lots of ferrets that have botched wiring be it from wiring around convoy light by rad to smoke discharger wiring that some herbert has just cut under front wing where lead comes out of distribution block being a bit smug here as wiring on my ferret is as perfect! right just off to splice in cd player into ferret wiring loom!:-D

[XWDV8]

When 02DA45 was sold back in the 1990s there was a new ignition kit in one of the side bins,

used to miss fire when I had her,but not all the time. was the new ignition kit used ?

 

if you find a sapon ratchet under the motor near lift pump,add it to your tool kit ! have a new one now.

 

hope you have as much fun with 02DA45 as we did

 

Phil:drive:

[johnwardle]

Try checking the fuel switch over tap for blockages. Someone I know had terrible problems with his Ferret running rough, he changed the carb, the full ignition system then finally took the fuel tap apart and a dead beetle fell out! after that it ran perfect. ALWAYS TRY THE CHEAPEST OPTION FIRST.

[desperatedes]

when you get it fired up again.look over the ht system in the dark.its amazing what you can see sometimes as leads short to earth.mini lightning shows spring to mind.

[FoolsHumor]

then finally took the fuel tap apart and a dead beetle fell out!

 

Yes, beetles are a problem. Two friends at the local airport had engine problems in two different airplanes that hurried their landings. Both were found to be the same type of beetles wedged in the fuel outlet pipes severely restricting the flow of fuel. There had been a recent hatch and they were every where, especially around the hangar lights the planes were fueled under with the use of a funnel.

 

Bob

[robin craig]

Well, I am the person who brokered the deal between Al and MkV Sten who sold the vehicle.

 

I am not an expert as others are but merely and enthusiastic amateur.

 

By Al's description of how the Ferret dies i was suspicious of fuel being the issue and have told him such.

 

I feel there may be more than one problem at play.

 

I have sent him by overnight courier, a NOS set of plug wires, which he will fit shortly.

 

I have been thinking about the fuel system and wonder if the fuel pump is on the way out, adding to the melee.

 

I will be interested to hear what the plug wires do to clean up things.

 

R

[Duffy]

Well I put a new set of plugs on her and other than looking great they changed nothing. The originals seemed shot...well at least two of the 6 were suspect.

 

 

 

Now suspecting a blockage of fuel somewhere I jumped into that train of thought. To start it was suggested I needed to see if fuel was getting to the carb. So I discontected the fuel line at the Banjo bolt/filter nut and attached a plastic juice can to it the fuel line and cranked the engine for about 10-12 seconds.

 

I got this amount

 

 

 

Seems ample so everything before the carb should be ok? So hopefully tomorrow I'll look at the carb.

 

Any thoughts?

[mike65]

Not an expert on Ferrets in facy only know what I have learnt from reading the threads on this forum.

However your problem sounds similar to one I had with my 109 FFR shortly after getting it.

It would fire up and run for a short period of time, then start to cough and splutter followed by it stopping to run.

Checked leads and all that stuff and eventually got to the carburetor.

First thing I found was a split ) Ring between float chamber and venturi, Did not fix problem.

Turned out to be a problem with the float valve, a foam type job was on it way out and not shutting off the flow, so too much fuel was getting through to burn properly and basically flooding it to a stop.

It should be noted that the float would float in a bucket of petrol, but not well enougth to shut off the flow. Was obvious when compared to the new one. I suspect you may have a proper hollow float at least you can normally tell when those are going as they have fuel inside.

 

Good luck with getting it going.

 

Mike

[ferretfixer]

The floats inside Ferret carbs are Copper drums (X 2) linked together with a bar.

IF, they are 'holed' it will be obvious when you take out the transverse axis pin & remove the floats. Shake them & see if you can hear any sloshing inside. Or, blow them dry with an airline & then submerge in a tank/container of clean Petrol. You wll see air bubbles as fuel goes into either of the circular floats.

Unusual to get a leaking copper float though in my Expirience with Ferrets.

[griff66]

knowing how much petrol ferrets use i wonder if after 12 seconds cranking on a open carb feed pipe u might get more fuel than that i think i would change fuel filter and blow fuel lines thru between filter and pump etc have u checked fuel pump is not leaking?

[ferretfixer]

knowing how much petrol ferrets use i wonder if after 12 seconds cranking on a open carb feed pipe u might get more fuel than that i think i would change fuel filter and blow fuel lines thru between filter and pump etc

 

I agree, the pump diaphram may also be stretched & require replacing. You can get a servicing kit for the whole 'David' pump assembly.

A relativley easy & straightforward job to do.

[sirhc]

That doesn't look like enough fuel to me, I would have thought you'd have at least half the bottle. I'd check air isn't getting in at the fuel change over tap, and check the things Griff suggested.

[Andrew S]

I ran the same fuel test and that is about the amount of fuel I got on mine so looks ok to me. I would replace all spark plug wires and the ignition oil wire and definitely would replace the condenser. You need to get a brand new condenser and adapt the mount to fit. The Nos b60 condensers can go bad on the shelf.

Cheers,

Andrew

[robin craig]

Al,

 

You need to work in a logical manner from a known point.

 

I am seriously suggesting you pull the radio tray out and go through the fuel system from stem to stern as it is only by a logical inspection will you find the problem. Running the vehicle on the second setting of the choke is indicative that the problem is supply of fuel as you have spark now I am assuming?

 

It is likely to be aggravation to get it sorted, the fuel system is awkward to take apart because of your turret and all the interior bling you have but it is likely that in the end the fuel tank will have to be drained and flushed to ensure a supply of good fresh fuel.

 

Having been underneath a Ferret lying in a puddle of fuel when someone didn't put new copper crush washers on the banjo bolts, use new ones.

 

The stem extensions on the banjo bolts are worth it to exclude the crud.

 

The change over tap needs to be looked at closely.

 

All lines need to be carefully blown out.

 

I think in the end you will find that is is a fuel supply and quality of fuel issue.

 

R

[ferrettkitt]

Have you tried switching the fuel tap feed from one side of the tank to the other?

 

It is possible for contamination from the fuel tank to pass by the filter and make it through the pump and reach the filter at the banjo. The fuel pipes could also be blocked which would restrict fuel flow to the carburettor.

 

Could you try running the engine from a jerry can with an inline filter in the pipe, in that way you will rule out or rule in the fuel system as being the problem. Its a heck of a lot of work to remove the turret, radios, tinware, battery boxes, centre engine mounts to name but a few things.

Edited September 6, 2011 by ferrettkitt

[Diana and Jackie]

Strongly suggest you strip and clean the carburettor, as well as fitting new diaphrams. The work will not be wasted since you will at least know it wont need looking at for a while.

 

It would appear you are using electronic ignition - normally the series resistor for the coil is kept in circuit permanently or at least that's what Mr Jolley reccomends. Just wonder if there maybe an issue with that resistor going inter dis?

 

D&j

[Andrew S]

If you keep the original Ferret ignition coil then yes with the electronic ignition the coil would need the original ballast resistors in circuit so the coil runs on 12v. However if you use a new matched coil from Frank Jolley you need to bypass the original ballast resistors and u use a small resistor Frank includes with the coil.

Cheers,

Andrew

[griff66]

have u checked timing?

[Adam Elsdon]

A mates MK1 Ferret was running fine then started to cut out once warm or under load, it was left at my house for a while, so i went through the electrics first, checked sparks, gaps, plugs, tested the condenser with a megger and it was still a problem, then went through the fuel system, checked the floats in the carb, the carb banjo filter, the fuel filter in the vehicle etc, all appeared clean, but it wasnt running right.

 

In the end we disconnected the pipe from the side of fuel filter housing, and the carb banjo union, and blew it out with an air line, and a rather enormous quantity of dirt and sand came blasting out, although none of this was apparent at either end at the filters, it was quite heavy gritty sand, and we think it was accumulating at a bend in the pipe, or at the fuel pump and was restricting it, as soon as the engine died, it was running back into the fuel pipe waiting for the next run.

Well worth blowing through just to make sure it is all clear.

The Ferret ran sweet as a nut after that, probably due in part to all of its full service checks!