Jump to content
Cel

WW1 Belgian horse cart

Recommended Posts

This cart was delivered yesterday. The nametag reads:

 

ARMEE BELGE

VEHICULE TYPE B.3

ARRIERE TRAIN N°25

ARSENAL DE CONSTRUCTION

 

It is almost in original condition with a lot of the original paint still there. The booms for horse traction have been replaced by a drawbar, as it has been used by a threshermen in France. Can anyone confirm whether it is WW1? Thanks for any comments.

 

Marcel

P8270147.jpg

P8270149.jpg

P8270151.jpg

P8270152.jpg

P8270156.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

not sure about the cart mate , but should the lettering on the plate not be more crisp? looks like a cheap copy ........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's good, I was just thinking that if that plate had been a cheap copy it would probably be a lot crisper and tidier than that ....

 

Typically these plates would be be cast brass, in quantity, and just a stamp or two - exactly what I see there. No idea of the date though, it's quite possible it is as late as WW2 maybe?

 

In particular I wouldn't expect the wood, particularly the wheels, to be as good as it is, if it was a hundred years old rather than a mere seventy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It might indeed be later than WW1 and even WW2, but I am sure that it is original. The condition of the wood does not say a lot to me when speaking of age. I have a horse powered threshing machine that is 100+ years old in original and condition, the wood is even better than this cart. Sure hope to find out more about it!

Thanks, Marcel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me it looks about right , right for a sand cast , resin sand cast at best. It looks aluminium on my screen, and as if somebody has put a small wire brush in a drill chuck to remove the paint and overdone it - probably not a good idea to clean up..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wheel diameter 1,3m

Case L x W x H = 2,7 x 1,2 x 1,1m

 

Marcel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it would be best to ask the Royal Armymuseum in Brussels, they might have some info in their library.

 

Greetz ;)

 

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cel, you probably know better than me but wasn't Belgian kit marked in two languages by WW2 ? When did they introduce the ABBL marking ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tony: yes it is sprung, leaf spring under the axle.

David: I wrote a letter to the army museum a few months ago but haven't received a reply yet. Maybe now I have it home I can try it again with better pictures.

79x100: I have no idea but will ask my uncle who was in the army for over 30 years.

If I find out more I'll keep you all updated!

Regards

Marcel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well thanks to this forum the cart mistery is solved! I was contacted about the Peugeot by a gentlemen here in Belgium a few days ago and thought I'd send him a picture of the cart. He replied almost immediately! The cart was used to transport the tools of the gunsmiths and blacksmiths, and was produced between 1907 and 1916. So far it is the only one known, in fact it was believed that none had survived. The 'bad' news is that it is not complete, the pictures show why. I am now looking for a set of wheels so we can reproduce the dolly (or whatever it is called). Another project on the list!

 

Regards

Marcel

 

foto.jpg

27.1.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A great find after three years ! With hindsight, there was a clue in the marking "Arriere Train" but it wasn't so obvious at the time...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amazing what turns up,

it feels like one of everything survives,

but this idea is probably far from the truth!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Amazing what turns up,

it feels like one of everything survives,

but this idea is probably far from the truth!

 

If only that were the case, I can think of several WW2 & post war British aircraft that no longer exist, this cart is truly a great find. well done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably one of those things that was 'To useful' sold to civillians and worked to death. What a great find.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is the 'Avant train' the same as a standard WW1 Belgian limber type and if so, do any survive perhaps alongside a gun ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That will be interesting to find out. I was wondering whether the N° 25 is the serial number, if so I guess it would be an early one?

 

Marcel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you could also motorise it with a Latil avant-train. French army had some of those converted horse carts too. :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
you could also motorise it with a Latil avant-train. French army had some of those converted horse carts too. :-)

 

Prachtig stuk, succes met uw project .

 

Jean-Pierre

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...