N.O.S. Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Well how bizarre! Not sure I have your patience any more..... So looks like you will have a simple system. I'm still curious as to why the original system is so complex.:nut: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) Glad to hear you have made a breakthrough. I know how frustrating this can be. Only thing that I can see is that you have done away with overload cut outs and limit switches, unless you intend to rewire these? Know its cheeky but can ask a few more questions will give my reasons. First overload switches i presume you mean by this the one built into the base of the ram at N/S as this is the only thing that could take into account extending into overload situation or heaving in with lifting winch and overloading system. yes i will wire this one back in Limit switches i have spotted these as sensors to cut of certain hydraulic functions eg crane down why and crane fully up why surely main relief valve will blow of when these positions are reached Slew limit switches that limit slew left or right eg 110 degrees either way of centre line. This is the one iam most interested in. Why i ask is have had a look many years ago in Germany at an ATLAS ak6500 Knuckle Boom crane( Hiab Type) as far as i can see this exactly the same crane base turn table and boom but with the extra folding bit welded on the end. This was advertised as a constantly revolving crane. The only thing i see stoping the crane on the foden doing the same is not the hydraulics but the wiring to them and the spot lights. Reason i ask is my idea to get the maximum out of this piece of kit is i would like instead or as well as using bogie blocker when doing suspend tows to be able to slew crane around 180 degrees over cab slightly extended to gain extra front axle wieght. The only other thing i can see that may stop this happening is an air line that goes to a foot switch at operators station is this some sort of slew brake even this air line i feel sure stand another 70 degrees of twist. Reason for all this remember i have a lot more hung out of back than standard EKA under lift Edited September 18, 2011 by cosrec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) Limit switches i have spotted these as sensors to cut of certain hydraulic functions eg crane down why and crane fully up why surely main relief valve will blow of when these positions are reached ? Answered this one my self while reading my last post it so if under lift has been left in highest raised position in conjunction with sensors on under lift it means bottom rear crane wont hit winch while slewing to side fully raised and bottom of boom wont hit underlift when going back out to rear fully down. No these sensors wont be wired back in Reason cant see why crane would ever be used with underlift this high up although can see why all out comes are covered Edited September 18, 2011 by cosrec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Know its cheeky but can ask a few more questions will give my reasons. First overload switches i presume you mean by this the one built into the base of the ram at N/S as this is the only thing that could take into account extending into overload situation or heaving in with lifting winch and overloading system. yes i will wire this one back in Limit switches i have spotted these as sensors to cut of certain hydraulic functions eg crane down why and crane fully up why surely main relief valve will blow of when these positions are reached Slew limit switches that limit slew left or right eg 110 degrees either way of centre line. This is the one iam most interested in. Why i ask is have had a look many years ago in Germany at an ATLAS ak6500 Knuckle Boom crane( Hiab Type) as far as i can see this exactly the same crane base turn table and boom but with the extra folding bit welded on the end. This was advertised as a constantly revolving crane. The only thing i see stoping the crane on the foden doing the same is not the hydraulics but the wiring to them and the spot lights. Reason i ask is my idea to get the maximum out of this piece of kit is i would like instead or as well as using bogie blocker when doing suspend tows to be able to slew crane around 180 degrees over cab slightly extended to gain extra front axle wieght. The only other thing i can see that may stop this happening is an air line that goes to a foot switch at operators station is this some sort of slew brake even this air line i feel sure stand another 70 degrees of twist. Reason for all this remember i have a lot more hung out of back than standard EKA under lift Hi, Yes the proximity switch in the base of jib luffing ram is the SWL limit, one on the crane hoist drum is for rope protection, others you have worked out. The proximity switch is adjustable for the safe crane load, the PRV protects the system at a higher level, I did overload and stability tests and do not recollect having to touch the prv to do this operation. The button on crane operators floor is a lubricator for turntable gears. This crane is also a 6500 model, but I would say it is what it is mounted on which decrees what its slewing limitations are. The Foden is 90 degs one way and 110 the other. Slewing jib over the cab, for driving with a suspended load ............think this might mean the front axle load should be checked, it is 8.8 tonnes as normal. Your discussion about proportional control in an earlier post, this is done within the large panel which you have stripped out, there were five small boards at the top right hand which done this, it only works on remote control of course, and each operation can be tuned independantly. My thoughts are that all this could be left in place and radio controller connected straight in to the remote socket. Any other questions, please feel free to ask. regards, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) My reason for wanting to rotate crane 180% while suspend towing is simply because the way the foden is designed it is near to its axle limits stood still with no casualty suspend towed. EG over engineered too heavy. EKA who seem to have the monoply with the MOD on recovery vehicles have complied with the specs supplied and given the MOD what they want. But as a civillian operator i am trying to get the best out of this machine. Up to now i have removed 1,700kg of this truck in wieght by burning of bits i will not be using ( fact i cashed it in for holiday money). Eg those huge supporting brackets for the under lift over complicated parts on under lift etc. I have not done any actual calculations yet but as a rough guess at the least i would estimate the crane boom is imposing a load at least 2 to 3 tons on the rear axle,s. The front axle when stood still is not near it limit. when picking up a casualty its load becomes less the rear axles become near or overloaded. Therefore if boom is slewed round over the cab say 2 tons taken of rear bogie and i guess 2tons put backover front axle. Make sense??? Edited September 18, 2011 by cosrec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) My reason for wanting to rotate crane 180% while suspend towing is simply because the way the foden is designed it is near to its axle limits stood still with no casualty suspend towed. EG over engineered too heavy. EKA who seem to have the monoply with the MOD on recovery vehicles have complied with the specs supplied and given the MOD what they want. But as a civillian operator i am trying to get the best out of this machine. Up to now i have removed 1,700kg of this truck in wieght by burning of bits i will not be using ( fact i cashed it in for holiday money). Eg those huge supporting brackets for the under lift over complicated parts on under lift etc. I have not done any actual calculations yet but as a rough guess at the least i would estimate the crane boom is imposing a load at least 2 to 3 tons on the rear axle,s. The front axle when stood still is not near it limit. when picking up a casualty its load becomes less the rear axles become near or overloaded. Therefore if boom is slewed round over the cab say 3 tons taken of rear bogie and i guess 1.5 tons put backover front axle. Make sense??? Yes, I see what you have in mind, only problem I can see though is that the jib will have to be raised somewhat over the cab and this might give you handling problems, although I appreciate you will be towing so not speeding as such. Max angle of inclination as normal was 27 degrees, so raising the jib and having it forward might alter that. Other point is by lengthening the underlift boom will that not decrease the max load on it? Edited September 18, 2011 by Richard Farrant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Managed to get a little done to day. Made up a board for inside big box screwed some terminal blocks in and a fuse holder wired in power in and emergency stops. Next got side legs working from original station switches plus hour meter. Checked out all wiring from terminal blocks to all solinoids all working fine. Checked out saftey cut out switch from base of ram tested all ok currentlly wired to a very loud buzzer. I am well happy just need some more switches for rear legs and remote and i have it up and running wiring side. Also will be able to wire in as little or much of original limiting switches as i think i will need. Will post some pictures but computer has gone duff and running on a spare with no imagining or scanning software Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) Yes, I see what you have in mind, only problem I can see though is that the jib will have to be raised somewhat over the cab and this might give you handling problems, although I appreciate you will be towing so not speeding as such. Max angle of inclination as normal was 27 degrees, so raising the jib and having it forward might alter that. Other point is by lengthening the underlift boom will that not decrease the max load on it? Slewed jib round over cab today and it seems very high. Once round obviousy it has increased CG will have to see. When i checked hieght of highest piont with tape it was 15ft3in. But i can lower this considerable at least 10" by chopping of the bracket that was originally used for lifting the under lift. Yes now i have lengthened the underlift it will have decrease its maximum lifting capacity. Have done a few rough calculations and guessing the front axle wieght at 6ton unladen it will take 8.7 ton to make the front axle come off the floor. Guessing the jib slewed through 180 degrees will add 2 tons to this front axle wieght it will take 11.69 ton to make it lift. At this bogie blocker would make it safe to drive although the back axle(s) would be overwieght by how much i dont know as i have no idea what would be on them when empty. What ever with me taking wieght of plus being able to spin crane even with lengthened boom i i think it will have an edge over standard chassis Edited September 21, 2011 by cosrec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Are you going to replace the proportional control boards in the panel ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Are you going to replace the proportional control boards in the panel ? Hi no i have taken the whole guts out of the box am using none of the original circuit board. Its here if you have a use for it. I have made up a very simple board of perspex ad simply put some stripp conectors on and a small fuse box. the remote i will order has enough functions to to work the winches underlift + crane. but personally i dont think i will ever use the remote for the crane. By the way i am using the original fold function to work the up down on the U/Lift fold will be done by the main winch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Hi no i have taken the whole guts out of the box am using none of the original circuit board. Its here if you have a use for it. I have made up a very simple board of perspex ad simply put some stripp conectors on and a small fuse box. the remote i will order has enough functions to to work the winches underlift + crane. but personally i dont think i will ever use the remote for the crane. By the way i am using the original fold function to work the up down on the U/Lift fold will be done by the main winch No,I do not need the proportional boards, thanks, just thought you might have wanted to include them back in the circuit. Best of luck, sounds like you are getting to grips with it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted October 11, 2011 Author Share Posted October 11, 2011 Project has ground to a halt due to lack of money but just had a kick up the bum today got a job to recover a 28 ton digger across many fields to recover in a very large dyke been there for 4 months one track off and now engine seized . Insurance paid out. owner has got job of shifting it. We are going this weekend to have a go. Sure big incentive to get Foden road legal will post as and when Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Project has ground to a halt due to lack of money but just had a kick up the bum today got a job to recover a 28 ton digger across many fields to recover in a very large dyke been there for 4 months one track off and now engine seized . Insurance paid out. owner has got job of shifting it. We are going this weekend to have a go. Sure big incentive to get Foden road legal will post as and when Now then.....what you need for this job is s scammell explorer and a bulldozer and mabey some cutting gear to take the arm off the digger, Pull that out later.... You best take some bloody pictures of this recovery a wanna see.....lots of piccies..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 What happened with the digger?....Any joy any pictures... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 Sorry not been yet but will keep informed. Company who were folding me the rear mud guards let me down i was going to jury rig some but we got a couple of long distance jobs came along so we did these instead. The job of recovering the digger is ours and another few days days will make no difference, to the owner. Its been sat in dyke for 4 months having said that i am eager to try the foden out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Hope the grounds not too boggy.... A Foden EKA is about as light footed and nimble as an elephant in high heels... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 yes i have guessed that from all the pictures i have seen on this forum of them stuck thats why i have tried too reduce wieght were ever i can. More interestingly the manufacturer of the vehicle and crane have as well. Looking at it foden supplyed the chassis then the Recovery gear was added then they both realized the vehicle was near its operation limits and still had no storage facilites. If you look at the storage lockers these are built to nearly aircraft spec out of flimsy steel frames with ally pop riveted on. then who ever designed the actual stowage brackets in the lockers for eqipment used 35 mm thick steel to make brackets to hold in place small pieces of kit a right mis mash and waste of money. As i have said i have thrown away 1700 kg of steel that was doing no good. If you have a look around a Foden have a look at the spare wheel carrier how much did that cost to design and make how complicted and hard to use and when used you have to extend the main crane boom to make it work. Why for gods sake its got a rotating boom on that can put the spare wheel any were you want it like i said in another post one of those cases of i think simplest is best others think vast amounts of engineering and spending of money impresses and creates sales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 There was a good reason for not extended the slewing angle to lift the spare wheel. If this were done, it would meant that an operator could lift outside of the designed safe lifting arc. Of course there could have been an actuated limit switch fitted so when out of normal working arc, the crane was limited to only lift the wheel . Might have been easier to use a simple davit as the Scammell EKA had. The original design and prototypes only had the EKA boom, as per Crusader, but there was a requirement for the crane, this then put the weight up and did not improve cross country performance with the 27 deg tilt limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 Just been reading the Foden post and came across this picture posted by reccy66 just wondered where it was taken Canada perhaps. Reason i ask is iam 99% certain its the cab i have just fitted on mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recymech66 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Steve, Yes that is your cab, I took the photo outside BATUS workshops last July, as you can probably make out it was in the process of being stripped for parts. A fellow Recy mech mate of mine went back a few times to take bits off it to keep his Foden on the road last year, his was the last Foden to be used on the Prairie (all SVR now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANDYC Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Steve, Yes that is your cab, I took the photo outside BATUS workshops last July, as you can probably make out it was in the process of being stripped for parts. A fellow Recy mech mate of mine went back a few times to take bits off it to keep his Foden on the road last year, his was the last Foden to be used on the Prairie (all SVR now). There was a sand coloured one with the top half of the cab painted red in Withams sale last week, it looked like a BATUS vehicle, was this the last one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recymech66 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) No the last one being kept on the road at the time was the Opfor Foden, red top wheeled wrecker had just changed over to SVR. If I remember correctly the red top Foden had a smallish fire in the cab so was parked up. (I may have got that bit mixed up with another wagon though). Edited November 1, 2011 by recymech66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 The red top Foden was in the tender sale at Withams this week R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stal108 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Has anyone any idea what happend to this one, i belive it had an underlift. atlas on the front as well. This is a serious recovery truck only 1 made. i wonder ,,,, My foden was AF 82 AA Royal Marines Artillary. Navy cast paper.. ALSO Note the STGO plate,,, em So pics of two foden eka... wonder where they both are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recymech66 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 1st pic is trails being carried out on a prototype of a possible future wrecker based on a Drops, it never happened, hence MAN SVR. 2nd pic is of the Foden which accompanies Nuclear convoys, somebody more knowledgeable can give you more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.