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oily

Saracen gearbox woes... continuing saga, things are happening!

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:cool2:Today I managed to get a start on the replacement of my leaky flywheel. Whil I was under the floor, ( not literally!, I'm not that bloody skinny! lol!), I decided to take a quick peek inside the top of the gearbox,.... as you can see it looks very nice, clean and shiny,... almost like new!

I am aware some of you out there are far more knowledgable on how these boxes work, and can give me an idea on how worn the brake bands may be by looking at the adjusters, with each gear selected. Everthing seems to move as I understand it should, when each gear is selected, making nice smooth mechanical-sounding noises. A couple of time I got a false neutral, but pushing on the GCP when not sat on a seat was likely the cause of this, I suspect, since it almost never happened whilst driving, and the only occaisional fault was loss of all drive, which now seems to have been a leaking flywheel.... hence the need for this time consuming task....

So, from the pics, can anyone deduce the likely condition of my brake bands?

Any constructive comments greatfully accepted....

I've attached two views of each adjuster, one with the gear selected, and one with the box in neutral, as I'm not sure when the assessment is best made... 2nd set of pics follows shortly.... (For some odd reason, they wouldn't load in order, but 1st gear is on the right, in each picture, here)

2nd gear.JPG

1st gear.JPG

4th gear.JPG

3rd gear.JPG

5th gear.jpg

Edited by oily
added info.

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here's the other pics, close-up, and from a slightly different angle.... i hope someone can make sense of it all. (from what I can make out, they all seem to be at a similar amount of thread/adjustment, except for 5th, but I may be wrong....:undecided:)

1st.jpg

2nd.JPG

3rd.JPG

4th.JPG

5th.jpg

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Oily, firstly good luck secondly your pictures seem to show much the same as i found in my gearbox. one thing i noticed was a lack of movement in the bands themselves as seen in this video. Any thoughts from the more knowledgable out there?

http://youtu.be/N732ENGhIsU

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I only have experience with a ferret gearbox ( and I am certainly not an expert). My ferret was slipping in first and second gear, the bands were worn down to the rivet heads and causing the slip. I have attached a pic of the auto adjusters for the ferret when dismantled, and presume they work in a similar way, The more worn the band, the higher the threaded rod goes into the threaded collar at the top of the adjuster. Mine was worn is lower gears , and the threaded rod was higher on those collars prior to repair.

 

Your threads appear about even, so it could suggest your bands are about evenly worn? It appears there is still some adjustment left in them. I hope this is good news to you , but don't just take my word for it. I relined some of my bands, as the higher gears were hardly worn . My ferret had had some corporate use so I think the lower gears were hammered, hence the wear.

 

Hope this helps. If you do start stripping into the box please be careful because on the ferret gearbox there is a large spring which applies the pressure to the brake band. This pressure has to be relieved in accordance to the manuals.

 

As I said I'm no expert so please get plenty of other advice. :nut:

DSCN7341.jpg

DSCN7340.jpg

DSCN7342.jpg

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Thanks for that, mate.

I had an idea it was something to do with thread-length on part of the mechanism, just not certain whether it was the odd square-pyramid shaped bolts, or the tubes with slots on the top, as you say the ferret box is very, very similar, but a bit smaller.

So far the dismantling is going fairly well, I've only had two small bolts snap off due to corrosion, and they are in the main floor plate, which is removeable, so easily drilled out and re-tapped. I do have a spare N.O.S. gearbox, that I could fit, if necessary, but that looks like a big job to take out too,.... I lost drive in all gears, but only when in busy, stop-start traffic,.... when the flywheel got a little warm, and started leaking its contents out through the centre seal.

I'm wondering if there is a more modern, grippier, but slower wearing, friction material that can be used to re-face these brake bands, as that would improve longevity!... on another point, I suspect the grade of oil in my box may be wrong, as it is very thin, when i got it, I assumed it was correct, as it was clean and the level has never changed, but now it smells like old, hot cutting oil, even when cold. So when it's all back together, I'll treat it to some fresh new SAE 30... that, I'm sure will help a lot too....

Edited by oily
additional info

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Oily, firstly good luck secondly your pictures seem to show much the same as i found in my gearbox. one thing i noticed was a lack of movement in the bands themselves as seen in this video. Any thoughts from the more knowledgable out there?

http://youtu.be/N732ENGhIsU

... I'm assuming lack of much movement would mean little or no slack to be taken up, due to not much wear and tear, ...yet?:undecided:

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I'm wondering if there is a more modern, grippier, but slower wearing, friction material that can be used to re-face these brake bands, as that would improve longevity!

 

Hi Oily,

 

I would doubt longevity of a new set of band material will be an issue. I would be surprised if many of us will put enough hard miles on our antiques to wear them out. Just guessing.

 

I appreciate all the photos you have posted. A previous owner of my Saracen had removed floor pans, steering brackets, linkage etc. and your pics have given me more information to go on. Thank You

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miss use ruins the brake bands...easily done if you use the gear engage pedal as a clutch...

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and they are so nice to drive when driven correctly, lovely smooth, almost seamless gearchanges......:angel:

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Here is my mate Tom's Unimog, hitched up to my Saracen.... I had to turn it round in order to remove the engine.... heavy going with no petrol, and dead batteries!:drive:

moving saracen, prior to flywheel repair....jpg

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