M16 a1

[handler 69]

Can anyone tell me when they were first being used by the British Army? Was there any difference to the ones used by the British Army as opposed to the American ones? Also where can I get the lanyard for one and how was it attached?

Cheers

Troy

[Chris Hall]

The first use of the M16 family in British use (I think) was in Malaya in 1965ish. The units there received AR15 rifles, and one of the stories I heard was that they would go out on patrol and often either had one up the spout or had to cock their rifle many times. When the patrol was over, they would clear the rifle by cocking the round out and placing it back in the top of the mag. After repeating this dozens of times, the round would fire on cocking the rifle. It was found that due to the floating firing pin lightly tapping the percussion cap every time it was fed into the chamber, the indentation left on the percussion cap got deeper and deeper untill it set the round off. Quite a scary thought.

 

Going back to the actual question though, I have seen some photos of SAS and SBS in Oman in the 1970s with the A1 but I would think they mainly use the Diemarco C8 (M4 type) now.

[extrogg]

Ive got a pic of Royal Marines using M16's in the Falklands in 82.

[Tony B]

The main use sems to have been in Belizse.

[Mk3iain]

The main use sems to have been in Belizse.

 

I remember troopers with M16/M203 in Belize around 1978/9.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Mk3iain
Grammar!

[handler 69]

I have seen pics of fellas in Ulster with them. Just wanted to know how widly used they were.

Thanks Fellas

Troy:-D

[ferretfixer]

Generally speaking, it was the M16A1 for while then upgraded to A2 spec for safety & efficincy.

The basic instant recognition features are: A 'Birdcage' flash hider rather than the earlier three Prong type. & on the RHS of the Reciever a 'Tube' like protrusion which is the Bolt, Forward Assist' Mechanisem.

In General terms, The Marines, SAS & Jungle Warfare theatres are the standard issue units to use the M16 Rifle. I take it when you state 'Lanyard', you mean SLING?

They WERE used in LIMITED quatities in Northern Ireland. Usually by a Special Forces (S.A.S) Attached Arm to a Patrol.

Edited April 27, 2011 by ferretfixer

[handler 69]

The pic I have here, from "Osprey's, Elite Series...Security Forces in Northern Ireland, 1969-92", page 10. Shows a soldier of the DERR with a M16 A. It shows the stock of the weapon secured by a lanyard. I take it this was connected to the jacket...just in case!

It says that the M16 was was issued to units on rural operations in NI.

LOL we call slings a sling here too :laugh:

[Mike C]

Gents,

REF: "Generally speaking, it was the M16A1 for while then upgraded to A2 spec for safety & efficincy. The basic instant recognition features are: A 'Birdcage' fla hider rather than the erlier three Prong type. & on the RHS of the Reciever a 'Tube'like protrusion which is the Bolt, Forward Assist' Mechanisem".

 

To expand on that comment:

 

The difference between the M16 and M16A1 was the bolt assist on the right side of the receiver.

 

The production M16 was only fitted with the three prong flash hider.

 

The production M16A1 was fitted with either the three prong or bird cage flash hider, depending on the year/date of production (late production = bird cage type).

 

Production M16A2 fitted only with bird cage flash hider and (I think) round handguard (M16 and M16A1 had triangular front handguard). There are also retrofits of round handguards to M16A1 just to confuse things, but not to M16.

 

Mike C

[tim gray]

The pic I have here, from "Osprey's, Elite Series...Security Forces in Northern Ireland, 1969-92", page 10. Shows a soldier of the DERR with a M16 A. It shows the stock of the weapon secured by a lanyard. I take it this was connected to the jacket...just in case!

It says that the M16 was was issued to units on rural operations in NI.

LOL we call slings a sling here too :laugh:

 

I seem to recall that slings were often worn round the wrist then connected to the butt sling swivel, on the principle that it was permanantly attached to you and in extremis if some bugger got thier hands on it a good pull would swing the muzzel away from you.

In theory very nice ........dont know if thier are any recorded incidents where successfull.

 

Tim

[Panzer nut]

Hi Guys

The british Army purchased 10,000 Ar15s before the US army even adopted the rifle.

The Ar15 and early M16 does not have the forward assist. All photos in the 70's and early 80's are the Ar15's or early M16's.

 

SAS/SBS units may have used the M16A1 in the Falklands but not the Marines who would have used the Ar15/M16. There are defently pictures of special forces with the M4 Carbine.

 

After the Vietnam war where about 100,000 rifles were tested the M16 was modified to have the forward assit plungeralong with other small modifications and was adopted by the American Army became the M16A1 General Service rifle.

 

It was proberly the late 1980's early 1990's when the later M16A1 came in to service as stocks of the older Ar15/M16 where exhausted through wear and tear.

 

I have that picture of the guy in Ulster as well and I have seen the same guy in another photo either earlier or later in the photo sequence which shows the Right hand side of the rifle and it shows it as a Ar15/M16 not the M16A1.

 

The Ar15/M16 was issued in NI to provide the troops on patrol with a weapon that had a fully auto capability along with on occasions the G3 (with shortened barrel) made by Enfield.

 

The M16A2 was a Infantry sugested modified rifle which seems to have been issued first to the US Marines in 1982 and the late 1980's to the US Army. The M16A4 was a fully auto variant and was issued aparently to some US units at the same time as the introduction of the M16A2. The A2 other than looking like the M16A1 it was a complete new rifle (Example FAL and SLR one of the same but different rifles) Heavier barrel, 3 round burst mechanism, new cone flash hider which supposedly stopped mud getting in the barrel when the barrel was rested on the ground etc etc.

I have pictures of a Para Pathfinder platoon of 5 Airborne brigade taking part in an excercise "Winged Crusader" 1993 equiped with M16A2's.

 

Other than Specialized units it is not common to see normal units using the Ar15/M16 outside certain theaters' Belize, NI and and the Marines in the Falklands war but again the latter it was not a common sight.

 

If you are thinking of getting a M16 for the 1970/80's get the vietnam version with the cone shaped flash eliminator and not the ones with the round flash eliminators as you will be at least 50% more correct than if you used the later A1 specs.

 

ta

Jon

Edited May 2, 2011 by Panzer nut
random Ooops

[handler 69]

Thanks mate

Thats great...I have the "Vietnam" version. Have to find a sling now

[Panzer nut]

You could either fit a proper M16 one or maybe use a SLR one?

ta

Jon

[Panzer nut]

Hi Guys

The british Army purchased 10,000 Ar15s before the US army even adopted the rifle.

The Ar15 and early M16 does not have the forward assist. All photos in the 70's and early 80's are the Ar15's or early M16's.

 

SAS/SBS units may have used the M16A1 in the Falklands but not the Marines who would have used the Ar15/M16. There are defently pictures of special forces with the M4 Carbine.

 

After the Vietnam war where about 100,000 rifles were tested the M16 was modified to have the forward assit plungeralong with other small modifications and was adopted by the American Army became the M16A1 General Service rifle.

 

It was proberly the late 1980's early 1990's when the later M16A1 came in to service as stocks of the older Ar15/M16 where exhausted through wear and tear.

 

I have that picture of the guy in Ulster as well and I have seen the same guy in another photo either earlier or later in the photo sequence which shows the Right hand side of the rifle and it shows it as a Ar15/M16 not the M16A1.

 

The Ar15/M16 was issued in NI to provide the troops on patrol with a weapon that had a fully auto capability along with on occasions the G3 (with shortened barrel) made by Enfield.

 

The M16A2 was a Infantry sugested modified rifle which seems to have been issued first to the US Marines in 1982 and the late 1980's to the US Army. The M16A4 was a fully auto variant and was issued aparently to some US units at the same time as the introduction of the M16A2. The A2 other than looking like the M16A1 it was a complete new rifle (Example FAL and SLR one of the same but different rifles) Heavier barrel, 3 round burst mechanism, new cone flash hider which supposedly stopped mud getting in the barrel when the barrel was rested on the ground etc etc.

I have pictures of a Para Pathfinder platoon of 5 Airborne brigade taking part in an excercise "Winged Crusader" 1993 equiped with M16A2's.

 

Other than Specialized units it is not common to see normal units using the Ar15/M16 outside certain theaters' Belize, NI and and the Marines in the Falklands war but again the latter it was not a common sight.

 

If you are thinking of getting a M16 for the 1970/80's get the vietnam version with the cone shaped flash eliminator and not the ones with the round flash eliminators as you will be at least 50% more correct than if you used the later A1 specs.

 

ta

Jon

 

Found a picture showing a Para with a M16A1 with M203 in NI in 1989.

[honeileen]

RAF Regt used them aswell;)