rob8066 Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 You get an automated reply back from the DVLA to either a phone number or an email address of your choice if you Sorn online. BUT, you must insure you receive the confirmation letter in 4 weeks. You may find you can't Sorn your vehicle as maybe it hasn't run out from the last peroid yet or they haven't sent the reminder to you yet. That's what i've found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 This is the only laid up vehicle I have that is not SORN , it is the one I was told by the authorities that it does not need SORN. However - if Grumpy is in fact correct - then it does need SORN. It would be appreciated if Grumpy could post any correspondence references ref. his case , that I could quote to them alongside my similar case and ask why the discrepancy in their reply. This highlights what could be unresolved SORN issues , and they are experimenting soon with SORN2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob8066 Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 Have you had it on the road post 1998 and have you received a Sorn reminder letter / road tax renewal letter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 No / No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob8066 Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 No need to Sorn as this legislation only covers Sorn vehicles. When you put it back on the road, then all the fun will start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I am anticipating some fun, as I understand. Possibly they could say it should have been SORNed years ago and send me a back-log of fines !! I don't wish to be in this situation - that is why I intend sending a lengthy correspondence to them by recorded delivery. The letter of reply will be retained with the existing reply (email) as documentary evidence should the issue go to court.. I have read on forums that the DVLA do not accept their own emails as documentary evidence in these matters ? Things may have changed , possibly.. Several years ago I was reliably informed that a FAX transmital could be used as evidence in court of a legal transmital of a document BUT e'mail with / without attachments could not as it does not have the same quality of evidence.. This I can understand - I don't have FAX facility - so it will have to be a letter sent by recorded.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob8066 Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 You should be fine. As i've said the Sorn only applies to taxed vehicles after 1998. If it's never been Sorn you're okay. The Sorn only starts from when you next tax it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) This is the only laid up vehicle I have that is not SORN , it is the one I was told by the authorities that it does not need SORN. However - if Grumpy is in fact correct - then it does need SORN. It would be appreciated if Grumpy could post any correspondence references ref. his case , that I could quote to them alongside my similar case and ask why the discrepancy in their reply. This highlights what could be unresolved SORN issues , and they are experimenting soon with SORN2 Sorry I can only go on what I was told by Birmingham DVLA when I handed the documents over. Even though the vehicle had not been on the road since 1985, I was told I had to SORN it as soon as I received the logbook in my name. The log book I handed over was the old blue V5, perhaps its because the logbook had to be updated to the new V5C logbook. The only thing I can find on the Gov. Website is here: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/UntaxedVehicle/DG_4022058 It does confirm that if you buy a vehicle that already has a SORN made by the previous keeper, that SORN will come to an end on the date you buy the vehicle. You must make a new SORN if you are keeping the vehicle untaxed off the public road. You cannot transfer a SORN My case was back in 2006 so perhaps the rules have changed since. Edited January 27, 2011 by Grumpy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Advice you can trust, when you need it - £1.53 per / min. http://dvlaguide.co.uk/index.php/dvlaguide/how_to_make_a_sorn/ Another to$$er money making scam - can you trust what they say - NO !! Record the answer - do you have evidence that would be accepted by a Court of Law - NO !! Note the small print at the top - Advice provided is available free of charge from DVLA and the large print in blue - UNOFFICIAL GUIDE TO THE DVLA A letter by recorded would be an investment in comparison to this lot.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I have been embezzeled out of £80.. Herein lies some of the traps,, http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pattle/nacc/arc0496.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 DVLA - seem to rely on the population taking a general disinterest , how right. I need to be looking more into this SORN racket and watch the legal situation. Two sites taking a interest regarding SI's :- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?186019 http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=45780 The comment by Grumpy on this forum - that their are alternatives to making use of the DVLA facilities to SORN on a annual basis is most interesting , BUT is he correct with this comment ? It is all very well scribing with a officious style , however I am now satisfied he has been wrong with some comments, need to determine the truth with the same documents the DVLA briefs have to hand.. If he is then the words illegal entrapment, intimidation and embezzelement come to mind.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim gray Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Hi , Been following the thread and thier are mentions of previous case law. Does anyone actually have the references ie DVLA VS GRAY ect? Presumably at least one of them actually created the precedent for defence in the first case? Regards Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) I take it that it is safe to assume DVLA VS GREY = DVLA -v- tim grey ?? Edited January 28, 2011 by ruxy spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 The comment by Grumpy on this forum - that their are alternatives to making use of the DVLA facilities to SORN on a annual basis is most interesting , BUT is he correct with this comment ? It is all very well scribing with a officious style , however I am now satisfied he has been wrong with some comments, need to determine the truth with the same documents the DVLA briefs have to hand.. If he is then the words illegal entrapment, intimidation and embezzelement come to mind.. Which comments have I been wrong with, I have only stated my own experiences with the DVLA Taken from “The Road Vehicles (Statutory Off-Road Notification) Regulations 1997” Section 2- interpretation 2.(1) In these Regulations— “the 1994 Act” means the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994; “keeper” in relation to a vehicle means the person by whom the vehicle is kept; “the required declaration” means a declaration in writing made to the Secretary of State by a person surrendering a vehicle licence or the keeper of a vehicle to the effect that (except for use under a trade licence) he does not for the time being intend to use or keep the vehicle on a public road and will not do so without first taking out a vehicle licence (or if appropriate a nil licence) for the vehicle; “the required particulars” in relation to a vehicle are particulars furnished in writing to the Secretary of State of— a) the registration mark of the vehicle; b) the make and model of the vehicle; and c) the address of the premises at which the vehicle is to be kept; and “vehicle” means a mechanically propelled vehicle which is— a) registered in the records kept under the 1994 Act by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency on behalf of the Secretary of State; and b) kept in Great Britain, and a reference to a vehicle which is “unlicensed” is to a vehicle for which no vehicle licence is for the time being in force. Read it for yourself here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/3025/contents/made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Re: SORN fines Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post You cannot SORN it until the log book has been issued in your name, you have to wait until the logbook arrives then you can SORN it. Even if it was taken off the road before SORN came in, when there is a change of keeper you have to SORN it. Same applies if you acquire a vehicle that is part way through the twelve month SORN period, when the new log book is issued the existing SORN is canceled and you have to re SORN. Just because the previous keeper signed and agreed to keep the vehicle off the road, he has no control once the vehicle has been sold on. ====================== The above quote.. With forum comments on such subjects , if you rely on a experience or know for certain then it is always best to quote some reference. My comment was that AFAIK - this is being re-cycled and not based on known facts , also I did agree with you on the variance of advice from DVLA. The problem being is that too many people are searching the internet for the truth because of misunderstanding due to official literature not being produced in plain English. The authoritioes rely on the fact that there are few solicitors & barristers and that the rest of the population lead a busy life , this enables these QUANGO to operate yet another extortion racket. You can see from the little info. presently available on SORN2 , they are feeling their way along with their police backers , drip, drip, drip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Can members please use quote tags when quoting other members to make the posts clearer as to which parts are quotes. Don't no how to do it... just put quote tags either side of the text you are quoting, like this YOUR TEXT HERE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) Re: SORN fines Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post You cannot SORN it until the log book has been issued in your name, you have to wait until the logbook arrives then you can SORN it. Even if it was taken off the road before SORN came in, when there is a change of keeper you have to SORN it. Same applies if you acquire a vehicle that is part way through the twelve month SORN period, when the new log book is issued the existing SORN is canceled and you have to re SORN. Just because the previous keeper signed and agreed to keep the vehicle off the road, he has no control once the vehicle has been sold on. ====================== The above quote.. With forum comments on such subjects , if you rely on a experience or know for certain then it is always best to quote some reference. My comment was that AFAIK - this is being re-cycled and not based on known facts , also I did agree with you on the variance of advice from DVLA. The problem being is that too many people are searching the internet for the truth because of misunderstanding due to official literature not being produced in plain English. The authoritioes rely on the fact that there are few solicitors & barristers and that the rest of the population lead a busy life , this enables these QUANGO to operate yet another extortion racket. You can see from the little info. presently available on SORN2 , they are feeling their way along with their police backers , drip, drip, drip Buying a vehicle that has a SORN If you buy a vehicle that already has a SORN made by the previous keeper, that SORN will come to an end on the date you buy the vehicle. You must make a new SORN if you are keeping the vehicle untaxed off the public road. You cannot transfer a SORN. Taken off the DVLA Website – look yourself, better still read the relevant SI;) Edited January 28, 2011 by Grumpy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Yes - that I understand , however without clarification - it reads as if all vehicles must be Re-SORN after change of ownership. We are agreed that - The SORN scheme only applies to vehicles where a tax disc expired on or after 31 January 1998 , therefore laid up vehicles not within the SORN sheme - do not have to be SORN on change of ownership. There must be DVLA people at Swansea with nothing better to do with their time but trawl historic vehicle forum sites such as this - they must be laughing their heads off.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 They are not the only ones... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_10 Brass Cleaner Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) Yes - that I understand , however without clarification - it reads as if all vehicles must be Re-SORN after change of ownership. We are agreed that - The SORN scheme only applies to vehicles where a tax disc expired on or after 31 January 1998 , therefore laid up vehicles not within the SORN sheme - do not have to be SORN on change of ownership. There must be DVLA people at Swansea with nothing better to do with their time but trawl historic vehicle forum sites such as this - they must be laughing their heads off.. Just for the record I have a couple of long term off the road vehicles. Both have been off the road prior to SORN and thus was not needed. I bought both like this, applied for and recieved V5's in my name, and have subsequently applied for and recieved the red V5C.# Both are still off the road, I have never recieved a SORN reminder, never SORN'd either, nor recieved any fines. I think it is worth making the point that the DVLA are incompetent in the extreme. When you ring them up never assume they actually know what they are talking about, when you go on their website never assume the info is correct. Itis quite clear that their interpretaion of the law is not neccassarily that which a judge might come to. Indeed it has been proven that they have and do act illegally. I Just had a look at the on line info for my 1930 Austin 7. Date of first registration = XX July 1930, Date of last liability XX XX 1985, Current duty rate for this vehicle = £65 for 6 months!. Hmm The computer records show that by its date of registration that it must be duty exempt! LOL I rest my case. The only reason a long term (pre SORN) vehicle will need SORNing annually following a change of owner is if some halfwit at the DVLA has changed something on the database. In my case they obviously didn't. Edited January 28, 2011 by Marmite!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferret1958uk Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I Just had a look at the on line info for my 1930 Austin 7. Date of first registration = XX July 1930, Date of last liability XX XX 1985, Current duty rate for this vehicle = £65 for 6 months!. Hmm The computer records show that by its date of registration that it must be duty exempt! LOL I rest my case. The only reason a long term (pre SORN) vehicle will need SORNing annually following a change of owner is if some halfwit at the DVLA has changed something on the database. In my case they obviously didn't. They wouldn't have changed the database would they? Have you sent off you V5 or V5C asking for a change of taxation class to 'Historic'? If not then it is not the DVLA's fault that the vehicles in question show as having to pay VED if/ when you choose to return it to the road. I looked at 17 of the vehicles my family own and you can see the records match exactly to when the vehicles left the road, whether they left before or after historic vehicles were given exemption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooTallMike Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 No it’s a DVLA cash extraction. I have had lots of problems in the past with DVLA, SORN and fines, never paid a fine and since I SORN my vehicles directly with the Secretary of State have never received anything from the DVLA regarding these fines. Hi Grumpy, I would be very pleased to circumvent DVLA wherever possible as I believe them to be largely incompetent. How do you go about registering SORN with the Sec. of State? More importantly do they notify DVLA so that you don't receive the silly reminders? Also, is there anything else that can be done directly with the gov't rather than via DVLA such as paying road road fund licence? - MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_10 Brass Cleaner Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 They wouldn't have changed the database would they? Have you sent off you V5 or V5C asking for a change of taxation class to 'Historic'? If not then it is not the DVLA's fault that the vehicles in question show as having to pay VED if/ when you choose to return it to the road. I looked at 17 of the vehicles my family own and you can see the records match exactly to when the vehicles left the road, whether they left before or after historic vehicles were given exemption. Personally I wouldn't thought it beyond the 'wit of man' for the DVLA themselves to interrogate their own database for vehicles that are historic by virtue of their date of registration and update it themselves! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob8066 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 You can no longer apply for a historic catagory for road tax per se foe 25 year old vehicles. This now only applies to pre 1973 vehicles and you have to apply for it. It's great to see the Government classes all post 1973 vehicles as non historic - cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowtracdave Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 You can no longer apply for a historic catagory for road tax per se foe 25 year old vehicles. This now only applies to pre 1973 vehicles and you have to apply for it. It's great to see the Government classes all post 1973 vehicles as non historic - cheers Historic category has only ever applied to vehicles registered 1973 or before which made them 25 years old or older at the time it was introduced . It has been suggested on a number of occasions that this should be changed so that vehicles qualify once they become 25 years old but after some initial consideration by the powers that be has subsequently been rejected every time the subject is raised . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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