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eddy8men

buried and abandoned tanks

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as soon as i heard it had been scrapped i rang the museum and spoke to a woman who i believe was the curator, i was told it had been scrapped although she sounded a little cagey, maybe she was embarrassed to have scrapped a rare british tank that landed on french soil to help liberate the country. shame they put such little value in it.

i was absoloutely livid at the time but i've learned that you can't save them all !

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Well that's criminal! Surely all they had to do was put it on fleabay and they'd got a tad! more than scrap price. and it might still be around today?

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By 'The Atlantic Wall Museum'?..... are we referring to the Batterie Todt one?...

Just asking because as I recall, the English fella that owned Batterie Todt was the same fella that dug up an extremely rusty Cruiser off the beach at Dunkirk in the late '70s maybe early '80s ?

I hadn't heard that tank got displayed eventually at Todt though...and as I recall it wasn't there back in 2004 when i last visited ?......When I last saw pictures of it ? it was extremely rusty and I do mean extremely rotted out and collapsing on itself rusty.... and I wouldn't have been surprised to hear that the salt water hd finally won and it had collapsed on itself?

Having said all that , the tank painted white in the picture does look to be in an awful lot better condition than the one that came out of the sand at Dunkirk so it may not be the same tank at all ..

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By 'The Atlantic Wall Museum'?..... are we referring to the Batterie Todt one?.
to the best of my knowledge, yes

 

..When I last saw pictures of it ? it was extremely rusty and I do mean extremely rotted out and collapsing on itself rusty.... and I wouldn't have been surprised to hear that the salt water hd finally won and it had collapsed on itself?

Having said all that , the tank painted white in the picture does look to be in an awful lot better condition than the one that came out of the sand at Dunkirk so it may not be the same tank at all ..

well they might have throw some whitewash over all the rust. Eventually all that was left was a hollow shell made of paint, like an empty M&M candy :D

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it was the batterie todt museum. i wish museums would see the bigger picture beyond their own collection

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i bought a hotchkiss/willys there 20years ago the owner was english he told me the story cannot remember it all but his dad met a french girl something like that, nice fella owned a nice hotel in nearby village wissant? when i was there, there was a big rail mounted gun on tracks behind the museum, is it still there, must make a point go have a look

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I wish museums would see the bigger picture beyond their own collection

 

I am sorry to say that most museums see themselves as the only proper custodians of historic objects and actually selling unwanted items to mear enthusiasts as a form of prostitution. After all we might sell them on and make more than we gave them (obviously the cost of restoration doesn't count !) or actually play with them. From their perspective we are just a bunch of hooligans who should butt out and leave history to them. Please don't think that I have strong views on this but the above is a paraphrase of what I have actually been told on more than one occasion by employees of two significant museums in our field.

 

To be fair to the Batterie Todt museum the tank was in a dreadfull condition. It had been in the sea for a very long time and the salt had got into the structure of the metal. As soon as it got into the open air it just started crumbling away and parts that had looked quite good initially turned to flakey rust. Even I had to admit that it couldn't be saved but why couldn't it have been offered to the open market ?

 

If anyone has seen the SS Great Britain on display in Bristol, that was refloated as part of its recovery from the Falkland Islands but now has hundreds of significant holes that wern't there when it got back to the UK. They got very concerned and finnished up making a glass 'sea' surface at the water line so they could have a very big dehumidifier keep the humidity down to a very low level both outside and inside the lower part of the ship. This has helped but it is an ongoing problem. If you are in Bristol I thoroughly recommend a visit.

 

David

Edited by David Herbert

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there was a big rail mounted gun on tracks behind the museum, is it still there, must make a point go have a look
lets hope so, I think it's one of only 2 surviving Krupp K-5's left in the world.

 

From their perspective we are just a bunch of hooligans who should butt out and leave history to them. Please don't think that I have strong views on this but the above is a paraphrase of what I have actually been told on more than one occasion by employees of two significant museums in our field.

 

LOL, reminds me of more than one Monty Python skit of the puffed up bureaucrat who can't be bothered by the needs of the " little people". :D

 

To be fair to the Batterie Todt museum the tank was in a dreadfull condition. It had been in the sea for a very long time and the salt had got into the structure of the metal. As soon as it got into the open air it just started crumbling away and parts that had looked quite good initially turned to flaky rust. Even I had to admit that it couldn't be saved but why couldn't it have been offered to the open market ?

 

David

I've seen the same thing with Aircraft and other metal objects recovered from the Sea. The salt has made it's way into the pores or atomic structure of the metal. In the case of the Dornier they pulled out of the channel they actually built a tent over it and sprayed it with a solution ( mild citric acid? ) for months if not years to leach the Salt back out of it. IT's crazy expensive, Can't really blame someone for not doing it , especially if at the time the value of the vehicle is substantially less than the treatment. I know someones going to pipe up and say the historical value is more than that monetary but if your running a museum and it comes down to a rusty tank or laying people off your staff, well............

 

I think (hope) people today have a better understanding of what it really takes to recover something from a salty environment. If your going that route, rivers and swamps seem to be a much better bet.

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IS2 heavy ?

says it's Iturup, one of the Kuril's. Also says the scrap metal there has no value, probably pick it up for a song ;)

1453877765_swalker.org_0_10cec9_e70cfec2_xl.jpg

In addition, smoking also is famous for its views of abandoned equipment. Metal and old machines to take out of here is not profitable at all this, that once fell on the island tend to stay here forever.

Heaps of technology, equipment on heaps, mountains of motors, dozens of meters of trucks, tons of abandoned scrap metal - all this can be found here. Thousands of tonnes of metal just disappear under the open sky. If you think that there is only military equipment so dies, nothing. Japanese cars are also rotting in the open air. Affected winds and storms grow into the ground on a par with any of BMP.

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IS2M, model 1944.

Quite a few of them scattered around the Kuril Islands.

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Tracked amphibians reminded me of this Centaur!

 

 

 

Not originally an amphibian i Know!

Edited by pbharcourt

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Tracked amphibians reminded me of this Centaur!

 

only 20 meters of water! time to pull that puppy out and restore it :-)

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i have often thought about recovering the turret from one of the centaurs. my cromwell was built as a mk6 with the 95mm gun but i fitted a repro 75mm gun and cradle so it would be nice to get hold of the genuine article. trouble is the tanks would be full of HE shells !

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I think the problem would be chloride ions in the steel, they would rust the steel quicker than you could look at it!

Five years in a bath of running water or a week in a furnace i believe is the way to rid it of the chloride, putting a tank in a furnace with HE shells would be interesting!

The slapton sands Sherman has been coated in bitumen to stop it degrading any more.

It would be great to bring them up and a real challenge to preserve them but worth it in the long run, the only other way is to leave the history to disappear.

A big glass tank of water with a Centaur in it would make a great exhibit.

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.

A big glass tank of water with a Centaur in it would make a great exhibit.

 

You could build it into your house and have it as a feature wall to the lounge, with exotic fish swimming around it and a full size diver called Rick in there too. :D

 

 

David

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aww c'mon guys, haven't you seen those videos of Russians pulling T34's and KV1's out of rivers and swamps? They just pull the shells out and toss em on the ground. Don't tell me the Russians have grown bigger bollocks than the Brits since WW2? ;)

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i'll settle for the turret and leave the hull down there for the divers to look at :)
I don't know cruiser tank design very well , were there no shells stored in the turret?

It first I wondered if the tank was loaded with ordinance at all, but if in fact it was headed for a D-day beach then a full combat load is all but guaranteed.

 

The cost here would be pretty tremendous though, first of all you have to ascertain if there were any casualties at the site, if so then it's a war grave and no touch. Even if it isn't ,I would expect just salvage permitting and paperwork would be substantial, then hiring a diver with ordinance handling background, an ocean going dredge or crane to haul those things out. I would expect the cost anywhere from 200K euros to 2 or 3 times that amount.

 

where's some crazy Russians when you really need them.:D

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the cost would be much less than you think. there are only bullets, grenades and smoke bombs in the turret so no really nasty stuff.

to recover it i would dive down myself (only 20m), connect hydraulic jacks between the hull and turret then go back up to the boat and fire up the hydraulic power pack which would be connected to the jacks. pop the turret off go back down connect the lifting bag, approx 4cubic metres should do it float it off, tow it behind the boat to the slipway at high tide, moor it until the tide has gone out then pick it up with my bedford and be back home in time for tea and medals :) simples

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If you could combine popping the turret with detonating the ordnance, you could catch the turret as it emerges, Polaris like from the waters......

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