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buried and abandoned tanks


eddy8men

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Oh, never thought that way, I assume you know a bit about this as I don't, is it common that all buried tanks etc. still are "owned" by the country they were used by?

 

Not so much that, I was thinking that unless a formal change of ownership has occurred then surely they still belong to the original owner?

 

Andy

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some great research fella's thanks, especially the article that names the vineyard manager and the fact that they were already considering excavating the site, looks like we might actually pull it off :thumbsup:

 

All the best, fingers crossed they are still in a condition to save.

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Understand, how about laws of salvage? similar to those at sea

 

If I recall correctly before the Sherman in the sea at Slapton was recovered, they had to purchase it from the US Govt because the US Government still consider items like this as their property. Fortunately these have never been theirs.

Edited by Packhow75
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The photograph does indicate a good point - the ground must be good free-draining so corrosion rate would be slowed down. Little water exposure and hardly any air change. I suppose from the tank museum exhibit , it seems nil battery type perforation to the tin-ware

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i rang the vineyard today wanting to speak to the manager but he was in the fields, it seems to be grape picking time so he might be busy over the next few weeks but i will keep trying until i get hold of him, when i do i will let you all know how it goes

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spoke to the manager today and he was receptive but there are vines growing over the site and these would have to be paid for. he will speak to the owner and get back to me. when i know more i will pass on the info.

he mentioned they had thought of digging it up last year and the location is known to them. let's hope they agree

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Darn it, 40% chance of them being under vines and ...............

 

well lets hope the owner is an agreeable fellow,

 

the trick might be finding the "what's in it for the winery" angle. I read they sell-out their stock every year so might not need more advertising/news exposure?

maybe offer to restore one vehicle to static display condition and display it at the winery as a monument to the home-guard in exchange for the other one?

 

I dunno, just throwing ideas out,

 

best of luck

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Darn it, 40% chance of them being under vines and ...............

 

well lets hope the owner is an agreeable fellow,

 

the trick might be finding the "what's in it for the winery" angle. I read they sell-out their stock every year so might not need more advertising/news exposure?

maybe offer to restore one vehicle to static display condition and display it at the winery as a monument to the home-guard in exchange for the other one?

 

I dunno, just throwing ideas out,

 

best of luck

 

If they want one for display or restore they may over look the vines, also how far into the vines are they, as access to the spot may be a distance through the vines

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i'd also thought of digging up 2 and restoring one for static display for the vineyard in exchange for the other, this would also have the advantage of a spares donor for the one i keep. however i would much rather dig one up and pay for it and be done and dusted but we'll see, i have a feeling they will want paying not only for the vines but for the tank itself which is only fair as it will have a commercial value, what that value is, is anyone's guess as nobody knows the condition of the tank until i dig it up . i'll just have to roll the dice and see what happens

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well I can see where restoring one to even static condition would be a huge job, all the rust removal, weather sealing the turret and chassis, etc. If it's missing a turret then the difficulty goes way up.

 

On the bright side, you did mention a spare engine, tranny, final drives, etc.

 

Oh and one more plus, your name on the a bronze plaque attached to the monument and forever emblazoned in history.

 

Restored by Rick Wedlock

Patriot Extraordinaire and all around good guy

 

Huzzah :-D

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lots of work to make even a static resto but it would be worth while, as i'd bet a pound to a pinch of salt the static one would eventually be snapped up by another enthusiast (one dark night)

there's no need for any brass plaques with my name on. i'm just an average guy trying to make a bit of difference before i drop dead.

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The trouble with the Covenantor from a collect-ability point of view is surely that it never 'did' anything, it was only ever a training machine, like Cavaliers. If it were a run of the mill Sherman that was buried it would be a mad rush to dig it up and make a quick turnaround. The wartime MV market has me completely flummoxed to be honest :-\

 

If they are indeed located it would make an interesting TV program on mainstream TV, they love that kind of thing, like TimeTeam.

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If they are indeed located it would make an interesting TV program on mainstream TV, they love that kind of thing, like TimeTeam.

 

Yes but then there would have to be some artificial deadline after which the whole project is pointless and an annoying media person who knows nothing hyping it up. Just do it for the fun of it !

 

David

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The trouble with the Covenantor from a collect-ability point of view is surely that it never 'did' anything, it was only ever a training machine, like Cavaliers.
yes, but

a few did lay bridges after D-day landings right?

and

rare as heck, only 3 complete chassis known to survive , and only 1 of this is a gun tank. This dig would almost double the number of known examples.

 

i'd bet a pound to a pinch of salt the static one would eventually be snapped up by another enthusiast (one dark night)
that would be pretty low for someone to steal a monument to the home-guard. Of course being on private property, it could also be sold at some point by the winery should they inclined to do so.
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yes, but

a few did lay bridges after D-day landings right?

and

rare as heck, only 3 complete chassis known to survive , and only 1 of this is a gun tank. This dig would almost double the number of known examples.

 

that would be pretty low for someone to steal a monument to the home-guard. Of course being on private property, it could also be sold at some point by the winery should they inclined to do so.

 

Pray tell me what a A15 Cruiser MkV (5) Covenanter has to do with the Home Guard ?

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:rofl::rofl:
oh go ahead, laugh at the silly american :red:

 

I must have gotten the terminology wrong, ?

The tank equipped various British armoured divisions in the home defence and training roles. It never left the British Isles as poor engine cooling caused versions MkI-MkIII to be declared unfit for use overseas service especially in hot climates. This was rectified in the MkIV after many corrective actions were undertaken but by February 1944, it was declared obsolete. More than 1,700 of the type were built.

I assumed Home guard referred to all troops and volunteers stationed at home to defend against possible German invasion early 40's. Were these not Home-guard I take it? Was home guard similar to Volksstrum and did not apply to regular army stationed at home?

 

This article was not clear , it seemed to lump them all together

http://ranmorewarmemorial.info/the-denbies-home-guard/

 

These guys identified as "Denbies home guard" who served where the Covenanters are buried sure look like real soldiers?

Home-Guard-DM-reduced-to-800.jpg

 

appreciate any knowledge that would clarify, I'm just a Yankee (sort of)

thanks.

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well searching the net does not help. All I can find about the Covenanter is "used to train front line troops and equip home-guard units

what am i missing? :???

Nuffield Mechanizations and Aero produced the A16 design heavy cruiser tank in 1938, but the British wanted a lighter, less expensive cruiser. The Covenanter was designed to fill this need. Nuffield helped with the design of the turret for this tank but declined to take part in production, preferring to field their own tank using the same turret- the Crusader. The Crusader is often viewed as a successor to the Covenanter but was in fact developed simultaneously. This misapprehension is in part because the Covenanter was relegated to the role of a training tank and used to equip Home Guard units while the Crusader went into front-line service, mainly in Africa.

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Draganm,

Don't believe all you read! There is a vast difference between regular troops on Home Defence duties, 24 hours a day, and Home Guard volunteers who did their duties after work and were usually men who were past conscription age and many would have had previous army service, and experience. My father was in a HG unit and their weapons instructor had served in the Boer War and Boxer Rebellion and had been an instructor at the School of Musketry (as it was called in the early 20th century). I remember the old boy when we went rifle shooting and he still had a good eye for shooting in his 80's. They did on occasions train with regular units, but definitely did not have tanks.

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