Woodsey Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) I am trying to find out information about what I think is a pre war Lucas Motorcycle Stop Lamp. I cannot find reference to it on the net or in any old Lucas Catalogues. Is anyone familiar with this lamp or have photos of it as used on a motorcycle? The lamp measures approx. 4 3/4" long by 2" deep. I have placed a Lucas MT110 by the ST20 for size reference. Thank you for any assistance. Woodsey Edited January 6, 2011 by Woodsey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Woodsey, The Lucas ST 20 was introduced by Lucas for the 1932 season although I don't know when it was deleted from the catalogue - it certainly never reappeared post war. It was operated by a N° 20 switch, which was a pressed steel barrel shaped affair in two halves, held together by it's mounting strap. I have always associated these lights with BSA - the 1934 BSA catalogue certainly depicts a few bikes with the ST 20 fitted, albeit as an extra, which is how it was listed by most makers until 1937-38 when any mention of stop lamps seems to peter out. Of course, THE bike with the stop lamp as standard was the 500cc Rudge, but it used Miller equipment, which was probably even better at self-disassembly than even Lucas stuff was. I'm still looking for the infernal rotary switch for that to be able to finish off the installation on my '36 Ulster. I saw one of those ST 20's up on Ebay a while ago, but it went for more than my bid which was a shame, since as you can tell I'm quite interested in prewar electrical bits. In any case a nice find, and seemingly complete, which must surely be a rarity these days. All the Best, Stef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
79x100 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 1937 was the year of the Road Traffic Act in the UK, at which point brake lights became compulsory on civilian machines so they would have stopped showing them as an extra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsey Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) Thank you Stef for this information. I will now have to look for an actual photo of one installed on a motorcycle. You mention the 1934 BSA catalogue actually depicts a few bikes with the ST20 installed? I will need to look for a copy. What rotary switch are you looking for? Is it a Lucas part? Cheers, Woodsey Woodsey,The Lucas ST 20 was introduced by Lucas for the 1932 season although I don't know when it was deleted from the catalogue - it certainly never reappeared post war. It was operated by a N° 20 switch, which was a pressed steel barrel shaped affair in two halves, held together by it's mounting strap. I have always associated these lights with BSA - the 1934 BSA catalogue certainly depicts a few bikes with the ST 20 fitted, albeit as an extra, which is how it was listed by most makers until 1937-38 when any mention of stop lamps seems to peter out. Of course, THE bike with the stop lamp as standard was the 500cc Rudge, but it used Miller equipment, which was probably even better at self-disassembly than even Lucas stuff was. I'm still looking for the infernal rotary switch for that to be able to finish off the installation on my '36 Ulster. I saw one of those ST 20's up on Ebay a while ago, but it went for more than my bid which was a shame, since as you can tell I'm quite interested in prewar electrical bits. In any case a nice find, and seemingly complete, which must surely be a rarity these days. All the Best, Stef Edited January 9, 2011 by Woodsey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsey Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) Thank you. I have found Pre war Ariel Sales Brochures that mention "Lucas Stop instead of Tail Light" as an "Extra" but it doesn't mention the ST20 by name, unfortunately. I have not been able to find any other Lucas Motorcycle Stop Lamps manufactured in this era. Cheers, Woodsey 1937 was the year of the Road Traffic Act in the UK, at which point brake lights became compulsory on civilian machines so they would have stopped showing them as an extra. Edited January 8, 2011 by Woodsey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) 1937 was the year of the Road Traffic Act in the UK, at which point brake lights became compulsory on civilian machines so they would have stopped showing them as an extra. That's new to me I must admit. I've got a '39 Sunbeam Hi-Cam and a '39 Square four that are both completely unrestored/never been mucked about with (the 'Beam in particular), and they're still decked out with their original Lucas MT110 rear lights that were designed for single filament bulbs, and narry a brake light to be seen. It's true that the manufacturers made you pay "extra" for a speedometer which was in fact obligatory from 1939 (I think), but motorcycles were still rolling out of the factories with MT 110's or 211's (with number plates in fact designed around them) up 'til 1952/53, and I can't find any references to widespread fitment of stoplights prior to that date (excluding Vincents). BTW, another use of the ST20 that has come to mind was on the '34-'35 Rudge 250, that used supposedly inferior Lucas lighting equipment for their cheaper model (makes you wonder what they were drinking up in Coventry back then) Edited January 8, 2011 by Stefano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
79x100 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) Now you're making me wonder how much I know and how much I think I know... I've always been aware of the MOT testing requirement (although I was a year out) :- "This inspection applies to; all machines except those which have neither front nor rear position lamps, or has such lamps permanently disconnected, painted over or masked that are . only used during daylight hours, and . not used at times of seriously reduced visibility If this situation occurs the vehicle presenter should be issued with a VT32 (advisory notice) recording the above. Exemptions For this test if a stop lamp is fitted, it must meet the requirements of this inspection, but need not be fitted to a machine which: a. cannot exceed 25mph, or b. was first used before 1 January I936.or c. was first used before 1 April 1986 and which has an engine capacity of less than 50cc. Machines first used before 1 April 1986 must have a stop lamp that operates from at least one brake control. Machines first used on or after 1 April 1986 must have a stop lamp that operates from both brake controls. However, a small number of machines first used from this date were approved with the stop lamp operated by only one control. A machine should only be failed if you are certain that it was originally manufactured to operate from both controls" The UK regulations are not known for being applied retrospectively and I'd always assumed that stop lamps had been compulsory since the late 1930s. Could it be that the regulation was applied later with a retrospective cut off date (why 1936 then ?) I must admit that I've never seen an MT110 with a dual filament facility and they continued to be fitted post-war. The instuction manual for my 1939 contract Norton (it's the civvy book) includes wiring for the brake light with what looks like a schematic of a double bulb unit. Peculiarly, it states "When tail light only required, omit this switch and leads" I'm running LEDs in my MT110 with a resistor permitting extra brightness when braking. Although it makes the wiring non-original, it saves butchering the lamp unit. Strangely, referring to Leon Hoppenbrouwer's pre-war BSA site, only the 'sloper' models for 1934 have the stoplight shown.. http://home.planet.nl/~leonhop3/1934_e.html Edited January 9, 2011 by 79x100 Extra link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Just had a look in "Police Law" by C. Moriarty, dated 1945, ( my mother was a WPC just after the war) and it seems that the 1936 date meant that if a brake light was fitted, then it had to comply to a Road Traffic Act dated in Aug. 1936, and be in working order. So, as to when it was compulsary, I am not sure, but would have thought it would have been late 40's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerostarget Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Hi Woodsey This is a very long shot as your posting re the lamp was over a year ago, but I have been searching for one of these lamps for my 1930's AJS for about two years, if you still have it, is there any chance it is for sale please? regards aerostarget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Get yourself to the Classic Bike Show at the Stafford Show Ground, it starts tomorrow (Saturday) and is also on Sunday29th April. There is at least one specialist dealer in old lamps, lights, horns etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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