question London LEZ. Some confusion over exemption.

[Lord Burley]

Clearly states exemptions for other vehicles..

 

 

Vehicles not constructed or adapted for general use on

roads but which are allowed to drive on the highway. TfL

will regard commercial vehicles eligible to utilise red diesel

as exempt from the LEZ except for HMRC categories

of ‘snow clearing machines’ and ‘road gritters’ which are

designed to travel on roads and thus will be subject to the

LEZ requirements

The following are exempt:

– unlicensed vehicles not used on public roads

– tractors

– light agricultural vehicles

– agricultural material handlers and agricultural engines

– agricultural processing vehicles

– vehicles used between different parts of the land

– mowing machines

– mobile cranes, mobile pumping machines (including

concrete pumps)

– digging machines

– work trucks

– road rollers

– a road surfacing vehicle

– tar sprayers

 

 

 

i

 

TfL has used DVLA data to identify these vehicles and

 

 

 

they should therefore be listed on TfL’s Compliance Register

as exempt (see p12 for further details). However, it is

advisable to check that TfL has the correct vehicle details

by using TfL’s online compliance checker (www.tfl.gov.uk ).

In the event that the categorisation of a vehicle is

wrong, you should contact the TfL LEZ call centre on 0845

607 0009 and you may need to complete a LEZ registration

 

 

 

 

form (see p12 for further details on registration).

 

 

Thanks for that. Clarifys a lot more. And it looks like i fit in to the list of exemptions. Just a mention. Been talking to someone from a goverment body today.And it seems that this new legislation will be extended further. There have already been private talks to extend this to 4x4,s,Pick-ups and black cabs of a specific age.

[Lord Burley]

 

In one word..NO

Nick. its ok exclaiming NO. But could you tell me how you would do an emissions test on a vehicle that doesn't require a trip to a m.o.t or VOSA testing station.

[Nick Johns]

Nick. its ok exclaiming NO. But could you tell me how you would do an emissions test on a vehicle that doesn't require a trip to a m.o.t or VOSA testing station.

You cannot operate an RB under any of the LEZ exemptions and expect to drive it shows carrying your gear, its not the same as claiming an MOT exemption by just filling in a form ANY vehicle registration claiming LEZ exemption is first inspected by TFL to check its LEZ exemption and operating criteria and as you are not employed in the agricultaral, forestry or construction industry you could not claim to operate an exempt vehicle, They have thought out every loophole, I know someome who tried an exemption as a showmans vehicle, after carrying out modifications to his truck and having several inspections his application was rejected as the vehicle didn't meet the requirements

Edited October 14, 2010 by Nick Johns

[TooTallMike]

With regard to the registration checker, I believe the TfL responses should be interpreted as follows:

 

'Compliant' - vehicle is subject to the LEZ and meets the requirements.

 

'Non-compliant' - vehicle is subject to the LEZ but does not meet the requirements e.g. built before the cut-off date.

 

'Not subject to LEZ' - vehicle is in a taxation class where the LEZ would otherwise apply but it is of a category or class where the LEZ does not apply e.g. it is petrol-powered, under the weight etc.

 

'Exempt from LEZ' - vehicle is registered with DVLA in an exempt category e.g. Historic.

 

The LEZ is applied firstly by taxation class, then fuel type, then body type. The reason the Disco with windows will be ok but the Disco Commercial will not is that the first will have body type 'Estate' on its V5, the other will say 'Light 4x4 utility'. This second class has been determined to be a body type largely used by commercial operators and thus it will fall under the scope of the second phase of the LEZ.

 

We were very fortunate to receive the concession for Historic vehicles following lobbying by a few people representing our hobby in the FBHVC and HCVS so for what it's worth I'd suggest that rather than trying to find loopholes in the legislation, people would be better off buying a vehicle legitimately registered as Historic. Alternatively buy something with a petrol engine.

 

A further long-term practical approach would be to lobby the government for a return to the rolling 25 year Historic vehicle RFL exemption.

 

- MG

[Bartron]

If your that serious about getting and using RB and using it in the LEZ, first throw away the Perkins (not a bad idear anyway if you have one in anyhting) and fit a nice 4 cylinder Cumming B will only be about 8 or 9 grand for a new one :nut:, or mabe one of the late 4 cylinder B's out a Dennis Dart bus there up to euro 3 now, if you can find one that isert shagged out, that would be a few grand less, but i have to agree with Mike, its much better to lobby for rolling 25 year exeption then try and find loop holes, and before anyone thinks im trying to be funny about changing engines, i have been involved in several engine up grades to make verious old bits of scrap useable

[Tony B]

If you can make a Dart engine viable after it's been in service , you can work miricles! If you can make a Dart engine viable anytime. Most Dart's coming out will be Euro 2 at best surley. What normally happens is the vehicle gets passed on to the provencies where they don't care.

[chevpol]

If you can make a Dart engine viable after it's been in service , you can work miricles! .

 

thats true!!! We had a a couple of ex london darts (well, ex Sullivans),at the company I used to work for, one had a LEZ exempt sticker, one said not to be operated in the lez, confusingly, that one didnt smoke at all, yet the other was worse than a chimney!!!

 

Mark

[Lord Burley]

With regard to the registration checker, I believe the TfL responses should be interpreted as follows:

 

'Compliant' - vehicle is subject to the LEZ and meets the requirements.

 

'Non-compliant' - vehicle is subject to the LEZ but does not meet the requirements e.g. built before the cut-off date.

 

'Not subject to LEZ' - vehicle is in a taxation class where the LEZ would otherwise apply but it is of a category or class where the LEZ does not apply e.g. it is petrol-powered, under the weight etc.

 

'Exempt from LEZ' - vehicle is registered with DVLA in an exempt category e.g. Historic.

 

The LEZ is applied firstly by taxation class, then fuel type, then body type. The reason the Disco with windows will be ok but the Disco Commercial will not is that the first will have body type 'Estate' on its V5, the other will say 'Light 4x4 utility'. This second class has been determined to be a body type largely used by commercial operators and thus it will fall under the scope of the second phase of the LEZ.

 

We were very fortunate to receive the concession for Historic vehicles following lobbying by a few people representing our hobby in the FBHVC and HCVS so for what it's worth I'd suggest that rather than trying to find loopholes in the legislation, people would be better off buying a vehicle legitimately registered as Historic. Alternatively buy something with a petrol engine.

 

A further long-term practical approach would be to lobby the government for a return to the rolling 25 year Historic vehicle RFL exemption.

 

- MG

 

Been talking to someone very much in the know. Who said that TFL draw all there data from DVLA and go by what is on there records. In his words. TFL,Vosa do not have the manpower to inspect every vehicle that enters the LEZ. Its based purely on the tracking of vehicles by camera,s and cross referencing with the DVLA,s database

 

Data of compliance and non compliance is taken from the DVLA database and what is actually recorded on the V5. A vehicle not subject to an m.o.t or plate cert should qualify as being exempt. And there are no lenthy time filling form filling as to why you should be operating or occupation as to why you are operating an exempt vehicle.

[Marmite!!]

. A vehicle not subject to an m.o.t or plate cert should qualify as being exempt.

As a rule the DVLA do not have details of which vehicles are MOT exempt, that's why you have to use V112/V112G to claim exemption when applying for a RFL.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Marmite!!

[Lord Burley]

 

As a rule the DVLA do not have details of which vehicles are MOT exempt, that's why you have to use V112/V112G to claim exemption when applying for a RFL.

DVLA do know if a vehicle is exempt as a V112 form is submitted back to them when application for RFL is required.

[Marmite!!]

DVLA do know if a vehicle is exempt as a V112 form is submitted back to them when application for RFL is required.

Disagree.. the post office do not keep the V112G they give it back to you & if they knew they would be no need for a V112G

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_067674.pdf

 

 

Claim for Exemption from Goods Vehicle Testing Requirements and Vehicles outside the scope of the Goods Vehicle (Plating and Testing) Regulations 1988 (the 1988 Regs) but which may have an allocated Plate.

Please read the appropriate notes below and over the page before filling in this Declaration. Once this Declaration has been used to tax the vehicle, it should be kept by the applicant. It must not be sent to any other Government Agency.

[Marmite!!]

A vehicle not subject to an m.o.t or plate cert should qualify as being exempt.

 

Why, I can't find anything to say MOT exempt vehicles are exempt from the LEZ??

[Lord Burley]

Disagree.. the post office do not keep the V112G they give it back to you & if they knew they would be no need for a V112G

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_067674.pdf

 

 

Claim for Exemption from Goods Vehicle Testing Requirements and Vehicles outside the scope of the Goods Vehicle (Plating and Testing) Regulations 1988 (the 1988 Regs) but which may have an allocated Plate.

Please read the appropriate notes below and over the page before filling in this Declaration. Once this Declaration has been used to tax the vehicle, it should be kept by the applicant. It must not be sent to any other Government Agency.

It has nothing to do with the Post Office. the post office is just an agent for DVLA. All applications for RFL are eventually passed back to the DVLA.Who keep records on exempt vehicles. The point has been proved to me on two occasions when stopped in the Ferret. On a PNC check it came back insured, exempt,no tax.

[gritineye]

I may be wrong here but I think the counter staff click to confirm on their screen after seeing your exemption form is signed, so DVLA would know.

[TooTallMike]

Been talking to someone very much in the know. Who said that TFL draw all there data from DVLA and go by what is on there records.

Correct, but it's no secret. During the initial consultation process TfL effectively stated that it would cost too much money to have the LEZ system connected live to DVLA. Instead they would purchase or lease or whatever the records that were relevant for enforcement. If DVLA records are wrong you are declared non-compliant and it is DVLA you have to take it up with, not TfL. This has caused a recent rash of people with station wagon 90 and 110 Land Rovers applying to have their V5s corrected from 'light 4x4 utility' to 'estate' as they should be.

[TooTallMike]

Why, I can't find anything to say MOT exempt vehicles are exempt from the LEZ??

This was a suggested approach by TfL at one point during the consultation but it was easier (cheaper) to use DVLA's records. Many of the LEZ exempt categories are also test exempt so they have embraced the principle.

 

I'm not sure of the relevance of this as the only test exempted vehicles of real value to this hobby are those manufactured before 1960 and over 3.5 tonnes, so not an RB44?

 

- MG

[griff66]

mike, can you explain your last sentance a bit more ?

[TooTallMike]

mike, can you explain your last sentance a bit more ?

Hi Griff, it made sense last night:blush:! My point was to be that the thread was going off on a tangent regarding test exemption, but I do not believe this to be relevant to a discussion about the LEZ since it is not a criterion for exemption.

 

Members of HMVF are predominantly interested in vehicles as items of historical value to display at shows and enjoy driving in a non-commercial context. Therefore we must consider the types of vehicles which are exempted:

- Anything petrol is exempt.

- Anything diesel under 1.205 tonnes is exempt.

- Anything registered Historic (pre-1973) is exempt.

- Anything in the following list of exempt vehicle types is exempt.

Vehicles designed and built for mainly off-road use, but which may be used on the road for limited purposes, including:

- Agricultural and forestry tractors

- Mowing machines

- Agricultural and farm machinery and equipment

- Mobile cranes

- Road and building construction machinery Historic vehicles (built before 1 January 1973)

Military vehicles [when in crown use]

 

Almost anything diesel powered, over 1.205 tonnes, post-1963 and correctly registered is condemned.

RB44 sadly appears to meet all of these criteria.

 

On a tangent of my own: collectors of historic vehicles are unfortunately becoming caught up in these bits of legislation because of the lack of a rolling 25-year historic vehicle class. Currently a vehicle must be over 37 years old to qualify. It is probably safe to say that the vast majority of collector's vehicles are over 25 years old; in complement to this, the vast majority of 25 year old vehicles are owned by collectors and are thus not used on a daily basis (except by a few masochists) nor are they used commercially. I would suggest that there are a number of vehicle taxation-related problems and loopholes which could be addressed by reverting to a rolling 25-year Historic class, including that of the LEZ affecting collectors' vehicles.

 

- MG

[ArtistsRifles]

I think most would agree with the 25 year rolling exemption Mike - it was how it was introduced after all....

 

Perhaps - with a hint and a nudge (OK - kick up the backside) to Fearless Leader campaigning for this to be brought back is something that HMVF, IMPS, MVT, FHBVC and all the other classic owning organizations might like to start co-operating on????

Edited October 15, 2010 by ArtistsRifles

[ferrettkitt]

Hi Griff, it made sense last night:blush:! My point was to be that the thread was going off on a tangent regarding test exemption, but I do not believe this to be relevant to a discussion about the LEZ since it is not a criterion for exemption.

 

Members of HMVF are predominantly interested in vehicles as items of historical value to display at shows and enjoy driving in a non-commercial context. Therefore we must consider the types of vehicles which are exempted:

- Anything petrol is exempt.

- Anything diesel under 1.205 tonnes is exempt.

- Anything registered Historic (pre-1973) is exempt.

- Anything in the following list of exempt vehicle types is exempt.

Vehicles designed and built for mainly off-road use, but which may be used on the road for limited purposes, including:

- Agricultural and forestry tractors

- Mowing machines

- Agricultural and farm machinery and equipment

- Mobile cranes

- Road and building construction machinery Historic vehicles (built before 1 January 1973)

Military vehicles [when in crown use]

 

Almost anything diesel powered, over 1.205 tonnes, post-1963 and correctly registered is condemned.

RB44 sadly appears to meet all of these criteria.

 

On a tangent of my own: collectors of historic vehicles are unfortunately becoming caught up in these bits of legislation because of the lack of a rolling 25-year historic vehicle class. Currently a vehicle must be over 37 years old to qualify. It is probably safe to say that the vast majority of collector's vehicles are over 25 years old; in complement to this, the vast majority of 25 year old vehicles are owned by collectors and are thus not used on a daily basis (except by a few masochists) nor are they used commercially. I would suggest that there are a number of vehicle taxation-related problems and loopholes which could be addressed by reverting to a rolling 25-year Historic class, including that of the LEZ affecting collectors' vehicles.

 

- MG

 

Somewhere along the way all vehicles will eventually be 'historic' and to say that only pre 1960's vehicles and WW2 vehicles are wanted seems a bit ahem. Life and production lines didn't stop at the end of the war.

 

The legislation that we have has become unnecessarily complicated making it difficult for the ordinary person to own a heavier commercial style of vehicle without falling foul of some piece of law rule or whatever. It isn't helped when Vosa the DVLA and the like say one thing and then change there tune at the drop of a hat.

 

If we don't have some sort of rolling exemption the vehicles being released now won't exist in anything like the numbers of the pre 1960's vehicles. As it is we don't see enough WW2 British vehicles at shows.

[Tony B]

But if they exempt any more vehicles, the Goverment will loose money, no VEL to pay for anything but roads. If I remember corectly isn't the 25 year rolling exemption mearly 'suspended' at 1973?

[ArtistsRifles]

If they put more effort into catching the number of untaxed and uninsured cars they could afford to reintroduce the rolling 25 year exemption and not notice it!!

[Tony B]

And unliscensed drivers!! Sorry wandering.

[Marmite!!]

I asked the DVLA if the TFL check the database to see if vehicles are mot exempt.. it seems they do not.. they also give a reason why MOT exemption is not put on the V5

 

Dear Sir

 

Thank you for your email received on 14/10/10. Your email reference number is 483***.

 

The Road Traffic Act 1988 states that a current test certificate or an exemption declaration must support a vehicle tax application.

 

It is the construction and use of a vehicle that defines whether a vehicle is exempt from plating and testing and whilst the exemption may apply to one keeper, it may not apply to the next. To print this information on the Vehicle Registration Certificate (V5C) could mislead customers into using the vehicle without testing and as a result, illegally.

 

I can confirm that Transport for London do not confirm exemption from testing when checking the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) database.

 

I trust this information fully answers your enquiry.

 

Do not reply to this email. If you wish to contact us again about this response then please use our Reply Form or copy and paste the following URL in to your browser:

 

https://emaildvla.direct.gov.uk/emaildvla/cegemail/directgov/en/reply_form_vehicles.html

 

When filling in the form the email reference number 483*** will be required.

 

Regards

 

J Punchard

Customer Enquiries Group

DVLA

 

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2012 by Marmite!!

[mogmaner]

The road tax lost would be fare supast by the fuel duty gain .so they still win.