question Private HGV Tacho Requirements?

[Tony B]

Yeah sounds like a brick coming through the window.:computerrage: :shocking:

[ArtistsRifles]

Reading through all these posts (and other other threads) that involve dealing with the DfT and its sibling organisations VOSA and DVLA, I am struck continuously by the idea that the DfT and these organisations simply cannot get their head around the fact we drive these things for fun and not to earn a living!!!

Edited October 8, 2010 by Jack
Neils updated post

[ChasSomT.]

I Still can't get my head round ANYBODY classifying a CVR(W) Fox a GOODS vehicle!

[Brooky]

I Still can't get my head round ANYBODY classifying a CVR(W) Fox a GOODS vehicle!

 

 

I dont think it is (is it designed constructed or adapted for the carriage of goods)

We have I think been here before and seem to think Light Locomotive, i am sure someone will be along shortly to help me remove completely the lid of this can of worms.......................again!!

[antarmike]

I dont think it is (is it designed constructed or adapted for the carriage of goods)

We have I think been here before and seem to think Light Locomotive, i am sure someone will be along shortly to help me remove completely the lid of this can of worms.......................again!!

 

It is a light Locomotive, but that is a construction and Use Definition, not a taxation class.

 

It cannot be registered or taxed as Light Loco, it is just what it is....Simples

[andym]

It is a light Locomotive, but that is a construction and Use Definition, not a taxation class.

 

Agreed, but I believe its taxation class should be PLG as they must have been first registered before 2001 and can therefore fall into that class - see Post 17.

 

Andy

[antarmike]

Agreed, but I believe its taxation class should be PLG as they must have been first registered before 2001 and can therefore fall into that class - see Post 17.

 

Andy

 

Suely PLG only applies upto max weight of 3.5 Tonnes

[Marmite!!]

Agreed, but I believe its taxation class should be PLG as they must have been first registered before 2001 and can therefore fall into that class - see Post 17.

 

Andy

PHGV see post #44 & follow link

[N.O.S.]

Alternatively follow this link and choose something appropriate (which certainly shouldn't have a G for goods in it ):

 

www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/forms/~/media/pdf/leaflets/v335x1.ashx

 

Oh, and note the disclaimer on the front page!

[Brooky]

It is a light Locomotive, but that is a construction and Use Definition, not a taxation class.

 

It cannot be registered or taxed as Light Loco, it is just what it is....Simples

 

I did mean to say that but I do know the subject has been done to death!!!

 

Goes back to earlier post I made around definitions of classes of vehicles and what you can tax them as (44 tonne combination taxed PHGV)

[N.O.S.]

And of course if it is pre 1973 it is simply Historic tax class - just forget the G unless you want to carry something with the vehicle.

[Brooky]

And of course if it is pre 1973 it is simply Historic tax class - just forget the G unless you want to carry something with the vehicle.

 

 

Absolutely!!!!

[andym]

PHGV see post #44 & follow link

 

Sorry Lee, but I disagree - the link refers to current vehicles, not ones registered before 2001. From your document in Post 12:

 

"CLASS TYPE OF VEHICLE AND/OR USE

Private/Light Goods (PLG) Vehicles registered before the 1.3.01: Private motor cars; goods vehicles not more than 3,500kg revenue weight; vehicles used for "private" (non-trade or business) purposes (including 3 wheeled vehicles over 450kg unladen). Vehicles registered after 1.3.01: vehicles that do not come into the scope of the first six tax classes, listed below."

 

Note that there is NO weight restriction on "private" PLGs registered before 2001. I know from personal experience that is correct as I was running a pair of 7.5 tonne PLG Outside Broadcast trucks around in the mid-1980s.

 

Andy

[Marmite!!]

Sorry Lee, but I disagree - the link refers to current vehicles, not ones registered before 2001. From your document in Post 12:

 

"CLASS TYPE OF VEHICLE AND/OR USE

Private/Light Goods (PLG) Vehicles registered before the 1.3.01: Private motor cars; goods vehicles not more than 3,500kg revenue weight; vehicles used for "private" (non-trade or business) purposes (including 3 wheeled vehicles over 450kg unladen). Vehicles registered after 1.3.01: vehicles that do not come into the scope of the first six tax classes, listed below."

 

Note that there is NO weight restriction on "private" PLGs registered before 2001. I know from personal experience that is correct as I was running a pair of 7.5 tonne PLG Outside Broadcast trucks around in the mid-1980s.

 

Andy

Clearly states ...

Private/HGV Goods vehicles, with a revenue weight in excess of 3,500kg, used privately.

 

1 The Private/Light Goods Class (PLG)

This class mainly covers private cars and light goods vehicles (not over 3,500kg revenue weight) that do not fall under the Graduated VED Schemes. However, any vehicle which does not fall within the other classes, described in this booklet falls within the "PLG" class for duty purposes. Within the PLG tax class, there are 2 vehicle tax bands:

Vehicles with an engine size up to and including 1549cc pay a reduced rate, whilst vehicles with an engine size of 1550cc and over pay a standard rate of duty.

was running a pair of 7.5 tonne PLG Outside Broadcast trucks around in the mid-1980s.

Didn't think PLG was a tax class in the 80's thought it was different then.. probaly wrong..

[Brooky]

Just to try to clear this up (or muddy the water even more!!)

 

Any goods vehicle OVER 3,500kg needs a vocational licence to drive it (vocational being minimum C1 vehicles between 3500kg and 7500kg, over 7500kg then CAT C) With the obvious caveat about its age

 

Vehicle over 3500kgs are therefore LGV (Large Goods Vehicle)

 

If not used commercially would have to be taxed as Private Heavy Goods and nothing else

[andym]

Just to try to clear this up (or muddy the water even more!!)

Vehicle over 3500kgs are therefore LGV (Large Goods Vehicle)

 

If not used commercially would have to be taxed as Private Heavy Goods and nothing else

 

Sorry, No. That's only correct for vehicles first registered after 1 March 2001. Understandably, most of the information on the DVLA website is "dumbed-down" to make it easier to understand. You need to read the document Lee included in Post 12 for the full version.

 

So, if:

 

 

• The vehicle is not a goods vehicle (i.e. not constructed or modified to carry goods);

• AND it is privately run (i.e. not for hire or reward);

• AND it was first registered before 1 March 2001

 

then it is PLG, REGARDLESS of weight. I believe that CVR(W)s satisfy all of the above, unless someone wants to contradict me?

 

Andy

[N.O.S.]

And how do the latest tacho requiremnts affect these vehicles?

 

Post 1973 (HGV, taxed PRIVATE/HGV)

1986 20t Foden 8x4 flatbed carrying GMC 6x6 (private use)

ditto (hire and reward)

 

Pre 1960 (HEAVY LOCOMOTIVE, taxed HISTORIC)

1944 Diamond T 981 / Rogers trailer carrying Sherman tank (private use)

ditto (hire and reward)

 

Post 1960 pre 1973 (HGV, taxed HISTORIC)

1964 AEC 6x6 cargo truck carrying Jeep (private use)

ditto (hire and reward)

 

I'm sure that (at one time) - if for private use they didn't need tacho to be fitted or used, but if used for hire and reward they all needed tacho to be used.

 

Anyone else confused? There must be someone out there has found this out for their own purposes, and who is prepared to share the answer (please)!

Edited October 8, 2010 by N.O.S.

[andym]

Didn't think PLG was a tax class in the 80's thought it was different then.. probaly wrong..

 

It was indeed around, and I can tell you an interesting story about it. I was parked up behind Brighton Conference Centre with one of the aforementioned OB trucks (B261RND if I recall correctly) chatting to a policeman who queried the PLG tax disc. I pointed out that it wasn't a goods vehicle. He came back later after having been called away, saying "I've checked and you're right!". We chatted like mad after that, until the following morning when all of a sudden there were a lot more policemen and they were a lot less talkative. It was 12 October 1984 and we were covering the Conservative Party Conference ...

 

Andy

[antarmike]

I reckon that as taxation classes now exist Fox is PLG. It has no revenue weight (presumably) so is not a Goods Vehicle, any goods vehicle has to have a revenue weight, either determined by Maximum vehicle weight permitted under C and U or based on a Plating Certificate.

 

PLG is Private / Light goods,

 

Ie Private vehicles or Light Goods Vehicles.

 

It is not a light Goods vehicle.

 

It is a private vehicle ie one which is used for “private” (non-trade or business) purposes.

 

The 3.5 Tonnes max only applies to Goods vehicles with a revenue weight.

Edited October 8, 2010 by antarmike

[andym]

I think at least that the owners of affected vehicles should approach DVLA with the question "Why is my vehicle not PLG?"

 

There's a degree of logic behind this, because before the EU put their oar in, the only HGVs were in excess of 7.5 tonnes. Goods vehicles below that were taxed PLG and you could drive them on a car licence - some of us still can! That presumably explains the pre-2001 exemptions for PLG.

 

Andy

[Marmite!!]

I reckon that as taxation classes now exist Fox is PLG. It has no revenue weight (presumably) so is not a Goods Vehicle, any goods vehicle has to have a revenue weight, either determined by Maximum vehicle weight permitted under C and U or based on a Plating Certificate.

 

PLG is Private / Light goods,

 

Ie Private vehicles or Light Goods Vehicles.

 

It is not a light Goods vehicle.

 

It is a private vehicle ie one which is used for “private” (non-trade or business) purposes.

 

The 3.5 Tonnes max only applies to Goods vehicles with a revenue weight.

Why is it then that Motorhomes over 3.5t are classed as PHGV when clearly they are not goods vehicles? Most of the Motorhome websites say the same thing..

 

 

Road Tax Motorhome Guidelines

Road tax in the UK can differ considerably depending on the size and regulations in relation to a motor vehicle. Unsurprisingly, this means when it comes to tax and motorhomes, road tax charges can vary significantly. Tax charges tend to be categorised by the maximum allowable weight by category, and currently motorhomes are exempt from type approval requirements until April 2012. Therefore charges can differ - for instance motorhomes that weigh over 3,500kg are treated under the Private Heavy Goods Vehicle (PHGV) class of VED. Other motorhomes may fall under a different category of tax band. According to the government, the majority of motorhomes are classed under the Private/Lights Good Vehicle (PLG) based on the engine size or weight of the vehicle.

 

 

Also.. http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/motorhome-road-tax.shtml

 

This is a resume of DVLA responses to a our questions

(Latest update 27/7/10)

 

All vehicle licensing and registration is governed by the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (VERA). Classification for taxation purposes depends on the construction of a vehicle and its use on the public road.

Vehicle excise duty (VED) rates for cars and light vans are based on European type approval standards and the date of first registration in the UK. European type approval is the testing that new types of vehicles must undergo to ensure they conform to European safety and environmental standards.

 

Motor caravans are exempt from type approval requirements (until April 2012) and would therefore normally be licensed in one of the following taxation classes. These classes will apply to all motor caravans first registered before 1st March 2001: Private/Light Goods (TC11): if the vehicle has a revenue weight (GVW) of not more than 3,500kg. This would be the appropriate tax class regardless of its use.

 

Private/Heavy Goods Vehicle (TC10): if the vehicle has a revenue weight exceeding 3,500kg and the vehicle is not used for the conveyance of goods or burden, for hire or reward or in connection with a trade, business or profession.

 

[Marmite!!]

I think at least that the owners of affected vehicles should approach DVLA with the question "Why is my vehicle not PLG?"

 

Andy

 

It was the DVLA that put the Fox in that tax class.. why would I want to register it as PLG & pay more tax??

[antarmike]

Why is it then that Motorhomes over 3.5t are classed as PHGV when clearly they are not goods vehicles? Most of the Motorhome websites say the same thing..

 

 

 

 

Also.. http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/motorhome-road-tax.shtml

 

Motor homes can be either Living vans or Motor caravans according to C and U definitions, A living wagon has living accomodation but also has the facility to carry some goods. These are probably the Motor homes to which this refers, I don't know for sure...

[Marmite!!]

but also has the facility to carry some goods. These are probably the Motor homes to which this refers, I don't know for sure...

So does the Fox..:nut:

[julezee001]

And how do the latest tacho requiremnts affect these vehicles?

 

Post 1973 (HGV, taxed PRIVATE/HGV)

1986 20t Foden 8x4 flatbed carrying GMC 6x6 (private use)

ditto (hire and reward)

 

Pre 1960 (HEAVY LOCOMOTIVE, taxed HISTORIC)

1944 Diamond T 981 / Rogers trailer carrying Sherman tank (private use)

ditto (hire and reward)

 

Post 1960 pre 1973 (HGV, taxed HISTORIC)

1964 AEC 6x6 cargo truck carrying Jeep (private use)

ditto (hire and reward)

 

I'm sure that (at one time) - if for private use they didn't need tacho to be fitted or used, but if used for hire and reward they all needed tacho to be used.

 

Anyone else confused? There must be someone out there has found this out for their own purposes, and who is prepared to share the answer (please)!

 

As I understand the rules. You'd need an HGV licence to drive all of these as they are all carrying a load, but the Diamond T could be driven without one if the trailer were unladen. They would all need an LGV test if used commercially, including the trailer, and would also all need a Tacho if used commercially. If used privately, the Foden and AEC, and the Rogers would all need testing, but possibly not the Diamond T?

 

I was led to believe that a living van can carry a load, other than "pots and pans etc", but needs an LGV test if over 3500kg, but a motorhome can't carry a load, and is a class 4 test whatever size it is ( my Militant was about 17000kg for its last test).

 

Jules

 

Jules