Why do I want a wartime Jeep?

[jonesy]

For a couple of years now I've had this urge to buy a wartime Jeep where I'd love to visit Normandy in it. I have no background in historic military vehicles (shame on me!) nor have I ever driven or sat in a Jeep.

 

I now have possibly enough funds to buy one. Not a concourse winner but more of a motor pool Jeep where it looks like it has been used. Chances are I will be buying one already restored as I don't have the means for a restoration.

 

My question is though, what made Jeep owners buy their first Jeep and what pitfalls should I look out for?

 

Cheers,

Neil.

[Enigma]

A (WW2) Jeep is a iconic vehicle, small, easy to drive, enough spare parts, fuel economical, fun, good on and offroad capabilities, enough available, easy to work on.

 

 

Pittfalls?

-Post war built French Jeeps being sold as WW2, bring a jeep connaisseur when buying.

-Any vehicle can look good but with hidden problems, check beforehand.

-Expensive compared to other WW2 vehicles like a Dodge or GMC.

-Can't think of anything else

[jonesy]

Yeah, I've read about the Hotchkiss jeeps.

 

I may be leaning on a company acquiring the Jeep and then restoring it for me. Has anybody gone down this route before?

[John Pearson]

You don't!! Just keep saying to yourself " I need something that has bodywork I can use as an anvil, I need something that has bodywork I can use as an anvil .............etc"

[Stormin]

Yeah, I've read about the Hotchkiss jeeps.

 

I may be leaning on a company acquiring the Jeep and then restoring it for me. Has anybody gone down this route before?

 

Sounds like a good way of making a not very cheap vehicle even more expensive. I would suggest buying a privately restored one were someone hasn't costed their time, effort and profit into the project.

[Lord Burley]

Go on. Just do it. You know it makes sense. A couple of pics of mine.....

 

 

[jonesy]

Lord Burley, that looks a little beauty.

 

I want my jeep to look in excellent condition but also to have looked like it has been used. I'm not looking for a concourse winner but straight from the 'motor pool'.

 

How much roughly should I expect to pay? I have a price in mind which I'm willing to pay but I don't know if its in the right ball park.

 

Also is buying one from the States a good idea. My father buys and imports vintage tractors from the States and Canada and has no problems.

 

Neil.

[Lord Burley]

Plenty of jeeps here. Remember the bulk of Jeep production ended up in europe. They are more of a premuim over there.

 

Base prices start at around £9000. And work there way up from there depending on condition. They also have a very good spares back up and are well catered for parts wise. You will never have a problem keeeping one on the road.

[Nick Johns]

A post war Hotchkiss is the best bet for a first Jeep, they look the same as the ww2 one and have some improvments, if your not familiar with a Jeep and have only driven modern cars dont forget they are 65 year old technology with cart springs, slightly vague steering and drum brakes, it will bowl along all day at 50 mph but are lots of fun, I hope you are not of large build as itl be a tight squeeze, Jeeps are one size fits all with no seat adjustment, Parts are no problem, easy to maintain, check gearbox changes up and down ok, there's no syncro on first, worn layshaft bearings growl in 1st/2nd it'l bound to have a few oil leaks but not excessive anywhere, the Hotchkiss engine is pretty relable but check for oil in the water and ask seller if it uses oil, all expensive things to have put right, but new military recon engines are still around for £2000/2500

Edited September 28, 2010 by Nick Johns

[jonesy]

Yeah, from what I've gathered on the forums, the Hotchkiss jeeps are basically wartime jeeps with all the issues ironed out.

 

One of them does sound good but I'm not sure if I'd be happy owning a jeep which I knew wasn't 100% wartime authentic.

 

£9K is basically my budget which puts me right at the lower end of a quality jeep.:cry:

[N.O.S.]

£9K is basically my budget which puts me right at the lower end of a quality jeep.:cry:

 

Or...beware....right at the top end of an iffy one :nono:

[Nick Johns]

Yeah, from what I've gathered on the forums, the Hotchkiss jeeps are basically wartime jeeps with all the issues ironed out.

 

One of them does sound good but I'm not sure if I'd be happy owning a jeep which I knew wasn't 100% wartime authentic.

 

£9K is basically my budget which puts me right at the lower end of a quality jeep.:cry:

 

For £9k you very unlikely to find a 100% original ww2 Jeep, there a lots of Hotchkiss based Jeeps oftem passed off as ww2, most will be rebuilds with lots of Hotchkiss parts and probably Phillipine repro body but its still a Jeep

Edited September 28, 2010 by Nick Johns

[mcspool]

a 100% original ww2 Jeep

 

Let us be honest - how many of those are still around? Most if not all Jeeps passed through some kind of rebuild, either by the military or in civilian life, where Ford / Willys / Hotchkiss parts were mixed and matched or replaced by repro parts.

 

I can see people willing to pay a premium for a 100% original WW2 jeep, but how is provenance proven? We all know today there are more jeeps painted in 82AB markings than there ever were during WW2!

 

Neil, you might best settle for a jeep in good running condition, if you indend to drive it that is what counts most. If it has a repro body or Hotchkiss engine, it does not really matter. As long as you know, because that will help you not paying for what supposedly is a "100% original" jeep.

 

HTH,

Hanno

[mcspool]

Also is buying one from the States a good idea. My father buys and imports vintage tractors from the States and Canada and has no problems.

Sure. Just look at the adverts and you will notice people make money from importing them. You do need someone at the other end to help you find one though. But maybe your father has some useful contacts, vintage tractors and jeeps are not far apart interest wise.

 

Hanno

[jonesy]

Let us be honest - how many of those are still around? Most if not all Jeeps passed through some kind of rebuild, either by the military or in civilian life, where Ford / Willys / Hotchkiss parts were mixed and matched or replaced by repro parts.

 

I can see people willing to pay a premium for a 100% original WW2 jeep, but how is provenance proven? We all know today there are more jeeps painted in 82AB markings than there ever were during WW2!

 

Neil, you might best settle for a jeep in good running condition, if you indend to drive it that is what counts most. If it has a repro body or Hotchkiss engine, it does not really matter. As long as you know, because that will help you not paying for what supposedly is a "100% original" jeep.

 

HTH,

Hanno

 

Yep, that's a fair comment. I suppose it's the look of the jeep that I want to be authentic but I'll keep my eyes open to see what crops up.

 

With the exception of the classifieds here, Milweb and willys-mb.co.uk, is there anywhere else I should be watching?

[Lord Burley]

car and classic website.

[Blackpowder44]

Go into ebay (USA) go to ebay motors, go along and find military vehicles. Plenty come up on the USA site. But beware some of them look great until you look closly at the pictures especially ones of the engine bay. It seems to be that they get the outside looking good and ignore the authicinty of the engine bay can be a mess. John.

[jonesy]

I watched two finish on Ebay in the past day.

 

One was a '42 slat grille which looked gorgeous. I did put a cheeky bid on it but even though I was the highest bidder it never reached its reserve. There was only one other bidder and the final price at the end of the auction was $10,100. Surprising for a slat grille.

 

The second was a '43 Willys which finished today and again never reached its reserve but I didn't bid on this one even though it looked lovely. Final price was $8,600.

 

My biggest problem is that I don't know enough about jeeps at the moment to spot a dodgy one. Simple stuff like corrosion issues I can spot but it's the little things that could cost me is why I'm wary about bidding.

[mcspool]

My biggest problem is that I don't know enough about jeeps at the moment to spot a dodgy one. Simple stuff like corrosion issues I can spot but it's the little things that could cost me is why I'm wary about bidding.

 

Study, study. Talk to people who own one, buy some books, go read the forums on http://www.g503.com. You will be a specialist in no time

[antarmike]

A (WW2) Jeep is a iconic vehicle, small, easy to drive, enough spare parts, fuel economical, fun, good on and offroad capabilities, enough available, easy to work on.

 

 

Pittfalls?

-Post war built French Jeeps being sold as WW2, bring a jeep connaisseur when buying.

-Any vehicle can look good but with hidden problems, check beforehand.

-Expensive compared to other WW2 vehicles like a Dodge or GMC.

-Can't think of anything else

 

Pitfall, a lot of them get stolen.

[Stormin]

Pitfall, a lot of them get stolen.

 

At least later ones MB's needed a key to start I believe.

[Willyslancs]

At least later ones MB's needed a key to start I believe.

my 44 didnt ........always thought it was the early ones mate.......

[Jack]

Yep, that's a fair comment. I suppose it's the look of the jeep that I want to be authentic but I'll keep my eyes open to see what crops up.

 

With the exception of the classifieds here, Milweb and willys-mb.co.uk, is there anywhere else I should be watching?

 

Neil I would suggest you join your local MVT as then you can take the risk out of buying a iffy one as most folks will know people who know people so could reduce your risk of buying a bad one....

[The General]

Hi,2 years ago i was in exactly the same position that you are now. I took a ride in a mates Ford GPW and was hooked-I had to have one. I agree with all the comments posted so far.

 

My advice, when you go to look at a jeep, take a jeep owner with you, then stop and try to take a step back and look at it without the rose coloured spectacles. I read all the "all American Wonder Books by Ray Cowdry, but bought alone. I bought mine from ebay in a semi restored state, big mistake!! beware of anything that has been stood still for some time regardless of it being rebuilt. I had to replace all "rebuilt" brakes because the system had not been filled, so ruining all seals. Water pump the same, seal was shot through drying out. Canvas was new from beechwood and folded at time of sale, turned out it had been stored in the wet at some point= rotted in the middle. This added to a myriad of small compononts that were missing and had to be replaced. Two years later we are on the road and looks fairly good? Classic military vehicle magazine October 2010 page 64 i think.

I dont think mine worked out a cheap vehicle but i have learnt what all the parts look like and it has been great fun doing it. My wife of course tells another story!! cheers, Tim:nut:

[jonesy]

Continuing with my stupid questions. I've also read numerous reports now of Jeeps being stolen. What practical ways can you prevent this?

 

Since I want to take my future Jeep to Normandy next year, it'll be parked in different areas whilst we visit museums, beaches etc. Should I whip off the distributor cap each time and the steering wheel?

[ruxy]

For £9k you very unlikely to find a 100% original ww2 Jeep, there a lots of Hotchkiss based Jeeps oftem passed off as ww2, most will be rebuilds with lots of Hotchkiss parts and probably Phillipine repro body but its still a Jeep

===============

IMHO , I would agree with this. You are not going to get a Jeep with all F (Ford) script on major / minor parts. Other than non WW2 authenticity I would rate a good Hotchkiss (with original nomenclature plates) but not to a premium price of £9/10,000 plus - there seems to be a bit of talking the prices up here , a Hotchkiss M201 should be rated and priced as a M201. Philipino repro bodies do the job but the vehicle price should take a hammering. High value WW2 Jeeps should be priced on good originality.

A Jeep that has been - rebuilt once or twice such as a MALT with M201 parts etc. a real mongrel or "Hotchpotch" , I don't think deserve a valuation of more than £5/6000 if in the best of condition, even with a set of combat rims and dodgy nomenclature plates + plenty of chassis paint to cover well any history brandings.

 

http://www.m201.com/ITM/ITM.htm

 

The truth sometimes hurts.