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happydayz123

Bovington Tank Museum reserve collection

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They don't seem very quick to offer help to enthusiasts, I got a parts list for fifteen ish pounds but no real interest in my loyd project. I have asked what information they have which could help me trace it. But I haven't even had a response... That wouldn't have happened in the days of David Fletcher.

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Is David Fletcher no longer there ? It is about a year since I spent a day in the archives but the chap who was helping us dragging out all sorts of dusty boxes was more than happy to 'just ask David'.

 

I'd say that if you can get there then it is well worth visiting the archive in person. The small office there was busy the whole time and they are aware of their limitations. There's no substitute for being there and building up some small rapport with the staff.

 

I'm not a 'Bovy apologist' but they were friendly and helpful despite my research being somewhat tangentiall to their focus.

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79x100

Is David Fletcher no longer there ?

 

David Fletcher official title is museum historian -he used to be Librarian but because of funding requirements to obtain educational funds and status the librarian has to have a accedemic qualification -unfortunately as there isn't a u/g degree in Tankology a degree in another historical or curatorial discipiline is necessary -if I remember correctly the librarian or assistant. librarian is ex. Wordsworth museum:-|

 

Steve

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i wouldn't have thought you needed to have a degree to be an expert in your chosen field but don't take my word for it as i haven't got a degree either.

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In the past a lot of RE exhibits were stored there assuming the RE museum will ever get itself on a proper basis.

 

I thought the RE museum rig was at the RE museum, or am I behind the times?

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Sean N

I thought the RE museum rig was at the RE museum, or am I behind the times?

 

I don't know I might be behind the times too, perhaps it's just stuck at Bovington for lack of transport, although I would have thought it could be made road worthy and driven there- to give the public an idea of the use of an M2 you would certainly need at least two- for whatever configuration be it pontoon or bridge structure.

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eddy8men i wouldn't have thought you needed to have a degree to be an expert in your chosen field

 

The problem is you need a suitably qualified person to access the big money programmes- as my late father used to put it;-

"ensuring employment for the otherwise unemployable sons and daughters of the great and the good"

 

but don't take my word for it as i haven't got a degree either.

 

My highest attainment is only a HND level so don't worry about it and I know two D. Phils who can't change a lamp.:cool2:

 

Steve

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I am no Bovy apologist either but (hopefully without upsetting anyone) has no one noticed that they charge the public to get in? There is a bl**dy good reason for that, they have to pay their own bills. The Museum is sited very conveniently for the Army but it has almost no "captive audience" of local centres of population, to even exist it HAS to attract predominantly holidaymakers.

A question: how many dozen staff do you think are employed in the workshop to do repairs, restorations, odd jobs, training drivers etc, etc etc? The answer is 5 (4 up to a few months ago) That is 4 individuals, not 4 dozen by the way!

In effect, that is the equivalent of 1 tank crew to do everything of a practical/mechanical nature.

I have always argued for nearly 3 decades that more vehicles should be saved, more restored and so long as no damage is done, more moving demonstrations done. The big catch is all of this needs money, lots of it to pay wages and expences

So, what can you do about it? Do what I do: give as much time as you can to help for free, then any available cash only has to pay for materials, tools etc. I travel 360 miles each time I go there, at my own expence. Why don't you?

All you have to do is join the Friends of the Tank Museum.

If you cannot get there why not donate cash with the proviso it is used for restoration only?

If you could but don't participate then there is not much point complaining.

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I guess it is all too easy to forget that it is money that makes everything happen, if the tank museum were in London or at least not much further than Kew they would get many more visitors and perhaps have a higher profile.... it's all about bodies through the door. At the end of the day it is a balance between a money making business and a public service, I sometimes think the scale tipps too much one way than the other in many museums..... does anyone remember the original science museum in Birmingham.... what was it's replacement called? Millenium Point? Most of the interesting exhibits went into storage!

 

Back to the Tank Museum.

Great place, haven't visited since the 90s. But I still expected a more proffesional attitude from the research staff. i.e. a standard email: Thanks fro your enquiry, we are looking into it and will get back to you in due time. It's the sort of thing that the company I work for has to do.

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All that said they can raise money for the Tiger tank,also someone's restored the German Kettenkrad, the sdkfz foundation has restored the Stug 3 and Bob Grundy with the tracked armoured group has restored more than one vehicle for the Tank museum in the past like wise the army apprentice school.Like Adrian said it wouldn't take alot of work to sort out some exhibits like the rare AEC Armoured command post witch i believe came out of pounds ship yard years ago.Oh well the least they could do is put a cover over the outside exhibits in the fenced area.

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Oh well the least they could do is put a cover over the outside exhibits in the fenced area.

Yes they could cover the outside items in the coach park which in the photos you can see alot have been, When I become a friend sometime ago I was told that if they resored every item they had in storage it would take 200 years to complete thats without new items arriving, ardrian and john pearson will tell you it dos not happen over night it takes years to get it right as it is a museum it has to be! The mueum mangment have plans to improve the storage and make improvments to the workshop areas of the museum again this all down to money and planing permisions which all takes time, some of it they have already secured and over the next 4 months you will see some improvments in that area, so all the money that is rasied is not spent on the Tiger tank which in its own right is a very importent part of the history of tank develoment.

Big Al

Edited by Big Al
spelling

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Sorry guys, I am going to put my head above the parapet and say that I am not a fan of Bovvy. They have had lottery money, lots of it; and the collection is still mediocre.

The French museum at Samur is a much much better day out and the entry fee there is reasonable - unlike Bovvy. For those folks who live miles away, the entry for a year is no benefit. Try bringing the price down by a few pounds and get more families through the door.

regarding the unrestored stuff, why not put it on show (inside or out) people are still interested in vehicles which are not running.

Having said that, I would support a group visit.

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Hi Big Al,i appreciate what your saying but surely the T14 Assault tank & T18 Boarhound, which i believe are fully restored & are also the only one's left in the world should be on display.Also not all the vehicles in storage are unrestored.Lastly it woundn't take a lot of time and effort to sort out the rare AEC armoured command post vehicle, which again i believe the only complete one left.That's if their still at Bovvy!! HOPE So hear's hoping one day.

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Hi Big Al,i appreciate what your saying but surely the T14 Assault tank & T18 Boarhound, which i believe are fully restored & are also the only one's left in the world should be on display.Also not all the vehicles in storage are unrestored.Lastly it woundn't take a lot of time and effort to sort out the rare AEC armoured command post vehicle, which again i believe the only complete one left.That's if their still at Bovvy!! HOPE So hear's hoping one day.

We all would like to see diffrent items we think would be intresting on display but the end of the day the museum mangment and curator decides whats to be displayed, with the current standard of storage the museum has, all the items would need some work before they reach the standard to be displayed in the museum im sorry to say, I do hope you get your wish one day.

Big Al

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Hi Big Al,i appreciate what your saying but surely the T14 Assault tank & T18 Boarhound, which i believe are fully restored & are also the only one's left in the world should be on display.Also not all the vehicles in storage are unrestored.Lastly it woundn't take a lot of time and effort to sort out the rare AEC armoured command post vehicle, which again i believe the only complete one left.That's if their still at Bovvy!! HOPE So hear's hoping one day.

A fact missing from this thread is that the pictures are not Bovy's reserve collection, just a tiny part of it, the worst bit. The rest is in two parts: legally Bovy owns all of the gate guardians around the country but the remainder is stored, nose to tail in the sheds around the site.

T14 and Boarhound are still at Bovy, under cover. There is not enough space for everything to be on show: I do wonder what proportion of the people that read this are 100% sure what both are? I can tell you from personal experience that the late Jacques Littlefield had never heard of the T14, I had the pleasure of showing it to him.

The AEC command was never Bovy's, it was there for some time before it moved off. i can tell you that for certain it has still not been restored. Similarly, the M7 was just a visitor, as was the 165 AVRE and T16.

FV421 has been passed on and is being restored.

I must endorse the comments about the length of time restoration takes, even if you have full facilities it can easily take a couple of blokes 5 years per tank. It is not like buying lots of new old stock Hotchkiss parts to 'restore' a jeep you know: you have to make most of the missing bits yourself, sometimes without even a pattern to copy.

If you want to see the under cover reserve collection a forum trip may be possible (not my area, try writing to the Curator??) but the easiest way is to become a Friend of the Museum. (That is my last plug for joining)

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John Pearson

I am no Bovy apologist either but (hopefully without upsetting anyone) has no one noticed that they charge the public to get in? There is a bl**dy good reason for that, they have to pay their own bills. The Museum is sited very conveniently for the Army but it has almost no "captive audience" of local centres of population, to even exist it HAS to attract predominantly holidaymakers.

 

With respect John you are making a pretty good fist of being an apologist for Bovy and I am offended that you consider justifable criticism unacceptable.

 

I've been through the entire thread this morning and no-one has suggested otherwise that Bovy has to generate its own income (Neil made an ambiguous point about public funds- and I corrected this to avoid anyone less informed thinking that Bovy is supported in any way out out of the MOD budget or general taxation unlike some National museums)

 

The point of the thread as posted by Happydayz123 was

just wondered if anyone had any pics of the reserve collection or a link
and has developed into the wider point that the reserve is neither displayed or adequately accessable, it has bugger all to do with Kraut tanks- that's another arguement on another thread [Tiger 131 etc] and should anyone want to argue that point again it should really be on that thread if only to avoid duplicating arguements.

 

IMO the reserve collect condition and accessablity has little to do with the hoy-pol-oi of visiting holiday makers it is more to do with serious study of AFVs just as access to numerous fossils at the National History Museum is restricted (but not left out in the car park) and I have to make the point again Bovington receives funding for educational purposes. Obviously staffing has an effect it is probably impossible to "police" the hangers that make up the reserve collection with the current staffing level and the same applies to the wired compound. Given that something needs to be done to make it accessable -before some misguided anti-militarist in Dorest council, in lottery funding or even in the Charity Commisioners decides that "their" valuable assets are being mis-spent or mis appropriated.

 

A question: how many dozen staff do you think are employed in the workshop to do repairs, restorations, odd jobs, training drivers etc, etc etc? The answer is 5 (4 up to a few months ago) That is 4 individuals, not 4 dozen by the way!
John why mention "dozens" it doesn't add to the arguement.

 

So, what can you do about it? Do what I do: give as much time as you can to help for free, then any available cash only has to pay for materials, tools etc. I travel 360 miles each time I go there, at my own expence. Why don't you? All you have to do is join the Friends of the Tank Museum. If you cannot get there why not donate cash with the proviso it is used for restoration only?
John setting aside the recruiting drive - I'm alrerady a member, 0641 if you need to know, there is a big difference between Wolverhampton and other places in the UK not to mention abroad. When I was in Surrey it was feasable to journey to Bovy, today a working weekend in Dorset for me would be a 800mile round trip added to admin. costs etc, etc starting and ending with a conservative 6 hour journey and worse for people who live further afield.

 

IMO it would be as feasable make a contribution to Bovy funds with provisos as it would be for a Quaker to pay taxes with the codicil that the were not to be used for military purposes. At the moment any such monies would probably go straight into the Tiger restoration fund. Nor are you in a position to know the financial or personal circumstances of anyone on this site and berate them for lack of contribution or effort. Further is it really acceptable to be "rattling the collection tin" in these circumstances? or any number of contributors to the site could be making financial pitches for their favourite charities be it the Haig fund, Meir Panim or even the Red Cresent.

 

If you could but don't participate then there is not much point complaining.
That is extremely disingenuous we still live in a democracy although we are all guests in Jacks tent where allowing for good manners ones right to an opinion is not based on the size of ones wallet.

 

regards

 

Steve

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Hi Guys,

Some very kind member has just sent me a list of restored and unrespored vehicle's in the reserve collection very interesting.

 

oxford carrier

fv400 carrier

 

Is it CT20 'Oxford' Tracked Carrier and/or the FV401 Cambridge Carrier?

 

I do know they have the latter - see picture of the reserve collection below - and I think the former can be seen standing behind it.

 

459983291LyBCpl_ph.jpg

Edited by mcspool

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mcspool

oxford carrier

fv400 carrier

 

 

 

Is it CT20 'Oxford' Tracked Carrier and/or the FV401 Cambridge Carrier?

 

Yes it would seem most of the carrier collection is in mothballs - possibly the only ones that seem to be on display are the U/C and the U/E (french) carrier. Wasn't ever aware they had a loyd, wonder if Alastair knows they have one?

 

Steve

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With respect John you are making a pretty good fist of being an apologist for Bovy and I am offended that you consider justifable criticism unacceptable.

 

I've been through the entire thread this morning and no-one has suggested otherwise that Bovy has to generate its own income (Neil made an ambiguous point about public funds- and I corrected this to avoid anyone less informed thinking that Bovy is supported in any way out out of the MOD budget or general taxation unlike some National museums)

 

The point of the thread as posted by Happydayz123 was

and has developed into the wider point that the reserve is neither displayed or adequately accessable, it has bugger all to do with Kraut tanks- that's another arguement on another thread [Tiger 131 etc] and should anyone want to argue that point again it should really be on that thread if only to avoid duplicating arguements.

 

IMO the reserve collect condition and accessablity has little to do with the hoy-pol-oi of visiting holiday makers it is more to do with serious study of AFVs just as access to numerous fossils at the National History Museum is restricted (but not left out in the car park) and I have to make the point again Bovington receives funding for educational purposes. Obviously staffing has an effect it is probably impossible to "police" the hangers that make up the reserve collection with the current staffing level and the same applies to the wired compound. Given that something needs to be done to make it accessable -before some misguided anti-militarist in Dorest council, in lottery funding or even in the Charity Commisioners decides that "their" valuable assets are being mis-spent or mis appropriated.

 

John why mention "dozens" it doesn't add to the arguement.

 

John setting aside the recruiting drive - I'm alrerady a member, 0641 if you need to know, there is a big difference between Wolverhampton and other places in the UK not to mention abroad. When I was in Surrey it was feasable to journey to Bovy, today a working weekend in Dorset for me would be a 800mile round trip added to admin. costs etc, etc starting and ending with a conservative 6 hour journey and worse for people who live further afield.

 

IMO it would be as feasable make a contribution to Bovy funds with provisos as it would be for a Quaker to pay taxes with the codicil that the were not to be used for military purposes. At the moment any such monies would probably go straight into the Tiger restoration fund. Nor are you in a position to know the financial or personal circumstances of anyone on this site and berate them for lack of contribution or effort. Further is it really acceptable to be "rattling the collection tin" in these circumstances? or any number of contributors to the site could be making financial pitches for their favourite charities be it the Haig fund, Meir Panim or even the Red Cresent.

 

That is extremely disingenuous we still live in a democracy although we are all guests in Jacks tent where allowing for good manners ones right to an opinion is not based on the size of ones wallet.

 

regards

 

Steve

 

Funny thing is that this was my first draft reply but I thought I had lost it, not posted it! Although I do not retract what I wrote, I know it would have been 'toned down' a lot on proof reading before posting.

Steve, you are wrong about donations: as a charity specific donations for particular purposes must be used for that purpose, with an accountancy trail to prove it.

Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion and cash or time availability is irrelevant but in my opinion, complaining without doing something or offering a suggested solution is always pointless. Fact is that there has never been enough money to pay enough people to do everything. Management have decided to spend money to increase public appeal to increase receipts to increase restoration funding in a sustainable way rather than spending what money was available on the vehicles pictured which have mostly been recovered from ranges.

The process is just about to bear fruit with new simple storage to finally get everything at least under cover and a brand new restoration workshop on the site of the old pavilion (where the static line is on Tankfest).

For years I have complained loudly about vehicles being left outside and 'wasting' money on Tiger, fancy buildings and corporate bullsh*t but the fact that it seems to have worked and storage and workshop are about to be upgraded puts me in the wrong and the 'suits' in the right in my opinion. Makes you realise why I try and fix things and "they" do the management.

If anyone has any positive suggestions how they can do better, I am sure they would want to hear them.

Small group visits to the reserve collection have been arranged in the past and although I have no say in the matter, I cannot see any real problem in a forum visit.

I have proof read it this time so I hope I have offended no one which was certainly nevermy intention.

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Yes it would seem most of the carrier collection is in mothballs - possibly the only ones that seem to be on display are the U/C and the U/E (french) carrier. Wasn't ever aware they had a loyd, wonder if Alastair knows they have one?

 

Steve

Bovy have never had a Loyd of their own although they did briefly have one restored by Bob Grundy on show some years ago. It was marked as 5th Battalion South Staffs, which my late father served in.

The carrier collection was nearly completely dispersed about ten years ago because 'they are not tanks' but hiding them until there was a change in attituide and staffing means most are still there or at other museums

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Steve, you are wrong about donations: as a charity specific donations for particular purposes must be used for that purpose, with an accountancy trail to prove it.
So how many charity specific donation accounts does the Tank Museum have? apart from the Tiger appeal? I would be surprised to hear that although the museum is or was primarily a repository of British Tanks that there is a specific account for the upkeep of distressed british tanks.

 

I can understand the museum accepting charity specific restrictions with regard to large donations such as the generous donation from the People of Kuwait but I would imagine that small donations with restrictions unless readily compatable with existing accounts would be gracefully decined, to do otherwise would become an administrative nightmare- to be tangental I doubt the Museum would accept a small donation specifically to fix the idiotic gun mount on the Churchill Mk2 gateguard.

 

Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion and cash or time availability is irrelevant but in my opinion, complaining without doing something or offering a suggested solution is always pointless........I have proof read it this time so I hope I have offended no one which was certainly nevermy intention.
Good I feel sure that we're both now on the same page.

 

regards

 

Steve

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Bovy have never had a Loyd of their own although they did briefly have one restored by Bob Grundy on show some years ago.

 

So the list published earlier is even more fictitious?

 

The carrier collection was nearly completely dispersed about ten years ago because 'they are not tanks'
Yes I remember that well:( if i remember correctly a fair bit of work was done on the FV401 and Oxford.

 

The last I recall was the U/E was on display next to the Char B1bis (which is currently elsewhere) and Universal was in the British section with a Cromwell -but its been a long long time since I've been to the museum.

 

Steve

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happydayz123

Hi Guy's going back to my original question " Has anyone got any pic's of the reserve collection" please.:-D

 

Some photos of a SAV 43 which was parked up in the storage area long years ago, it was not part of the Museums holdings but was lodged there for sometime- I think it got butchered into a Marder look a like for a Film -possibly even Saving Private Ryan but I'm not 100% sure if it was

that one or another.

 

 

 

pencil.png

Sav M43-4.jpg

Sav M43-2.jpg

Sav M43-3.jpg

Sav M43-5.jpg

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