Browning .50 Calibre Deacs..... what ya think?

[Wolfy]

Guys much like my post on the Bren gun.... anything in particular to look for when buying a deac .50?

 

Can they be lifted onto a Jeep pintle by one reasonably strong person?

 

They seem to be rising steadily in price and I'd like to get one before they go stratospheric.

 

:-\

[airportable]

Hi, I have been very lucky this year and picked one up at a very good price with a M63 AA mount. I think you will find the gun weighs in at 84LB. I am quite fit but not of a strong build. I can just lift the gun in a straight easy lift and carry it. I can also drop it into the mount whitch is not too bad, lining up one mount pin can be a pain. But to lift the gun more than waist high I could not do and anyway ALLWAYS get help.

If I was going to buy one I would check the action worked smooth, and like any collectable the overall condition of the patina of the gun, and are all the 'bits' still on the gun.

Markings, sadly they had been mostly removed from mine when it was refurbished at the Rock Island Armories and their own ser. no. etc. added, but that is interesting history in its self. (I have a friend in the trade who informs me this is common).

Make sure you have a deact. cert with it. (see other new thread on subject). I had none with mine but now have, took it nowhere till I had, the RAF police wanted to see it at a event, not sure what would have happened if I had not.

Hope of some help, Andy.

[Gustaf]

It is odd the differences in what is allowed in different countries, we are not allowed to have the right side plate on a Browning .30 or .50, but we can have all the other parts, which is cool, as the only thng the right side plated does is keep the charging handle from falling out,

[Chris Hall]

The main thing with the .5 is that lots of them are missing parts, I've got 2, one is complete with every part, the second, was missing quite a few internal parts and some external parts. The deac standards very, my complete version is well done and all the work is discreet, the other is ugly and has exposed welds etc.

 

Theres also the choice of .5, theres the M2HB (Heavy Barrel) as used on vehicle and tanks etc, then theres the M2AC (Aircraft) which is the lighter and there for faster firing version used in aircraft and on some SAS jeeps. And then theres the M3 varients which I think are post war fast firing Aircraft guns which can be changed from left to right hand feed.

[Wolfy]

hmm thanks Chris, interesting to hear the differences in deac standards.

 

I have recently heard elsewhere from an experienced member that many of the .50s are made from parts and not complete original guns.

[Lord Burley]

Ive got a completely original .50 which i mount on the Jeep...........

 

 

Its dated 1943. And apart from the de-ac its 100% original with all the internal parts. I bought it 20 years ago for around £1600. A lot of money then. Most have a mix match of original bodies and replica barrels or the other way around. Never seen another one like the one i have to be honest.

 

There is a way of mounting the .50 on your own. Take the top part of the pintle mount off the Jeep. Mount that to the.50. With that on. Place the .50 on the seat upright. Stand on the seat and pick the whole gun up.With the top mount already on,its a lot easier to drop in to place than trying to line it up on the the top pintle and trying to guide the pin in.

[Wolfy]

Looks great, and a very good idea for mounting thanks.

[trustmeimamechanic]

Personaly I don't think .50's are a good investment unless its a wartime dated original .... its still a current weapon and a such stocks are constantly available with as pointed out many bitsa's out there ... did see a very nice one at W&P and nearly had to strip it to see where it was deacted ... however any deact is just a lump of metal ... it will never go bang again :cry: , and with very good replicas available for £350 I struggle to justify spending another £1200 just because its a real one, mounted on a vehicle and only visable from 6ft away my replica has fooled serving soldiers that were shooting .50s for real only months before . That however is only my opinion :-D , if it still went bang I'd buy one like a shot :cool2:

[airportable]

Personaly I don't think .50's are a good investment unless its a wartime dated original .... its still a current weapon and a such stocks are constantly available with as pointed out many bitsa's out there ... did see a very nice one at W&P and nearly had to strip it to see where it was deacted ... however any deact is just a lump of metal ... it will never go bang again :cry: , and with very good replicas available for £350 I struggle to justify spending another £1200 just because its a real one, mounted on a vehicle and only visable from 6ft away my replica has fooled serving soldiers that were shooting .50s for real only months before . That however is only my opinion :-D , if it still went bang I'd buy one like a shot :cool2:

Hi. In some ways I agree with your comments. A deact is just a lump of metal. I had a 'copy' some time ago that was very good and fooled. BUT it was just a copy. I was very lucky indeed and have ended up with a very good original on the M63 mount, but at a good price whitch helped. If you show and talk about the gun the feed back is fantastic. (last event two members from the 2nd Para were all over it) Lifting the top cover and placing 'rounds' in, stripping parts to demo cleaning etc.

It all depends what you are looking for. Lets face it at the moment good deacts are just getting out of pockets of most of us. i.e. old spec. SLR's.

Anyone interested in a photo or two of mine in this thread for interest and reference?

Buy one if it could still fire!!!? I live in Great Britian.

Andy.

[Wolfy]

We all love pics so post em up!

 

My thoughts are deacs will be out of range of the average Joe eventually, if the flow of new deacs is stopped they will become prohibitively expensive more quickly, I just bought a second Bren for this reason as theyre good value currently.

[airportable]

We all love pics so post em up!

 

My thoughts are deacs will be out of range of the average Joe eventually, if the flow of new deacs is stopped they will become prohibitively expensive more quickly, I just bought a second Bren for this reason as theyre good value currently.

Will do. Event at Shugborough next Sun. (15th Aug.) Will take pics. set up and detail.

Andy.

[trustmeimamechanic]

I agree... as a speculative investment a good early spec deac will go up in value and will deff earn you more than if the money was sitting in a bank currently , one concern may be the law is changed and overnight they become worthless , however if you just want a gun shaped piece of metal to put on a vehicle then a replica may be a better option ..... I'm happy to leave my jeep parked up unattended at events with a .50 on it simply because its only a rep and cost me £300 ... if I had a genuine £1800 .50 on the jeep I wouldn't be so relaxed about just leaving it parked up say when going shopping at the W&P .

[early british ww2]

I agree... as a speculative investment a good early spec deac will go up in value and will deff earn you more than if the money was sitting in a bank currently , one concern may be the law is changed and overnight they become worthless , however if you just want a gun shaped piece of metal to put on a vehicle then a replica may be a better option ..... I'm happy to leave my jeep parked up unattended at events with a .50 on it simply because its only a rep and cost me £300 ... if I had a genuine £1800 .50 on the jeep I wouldn't be so relaxed about just leaving it parked up say when going shopping at the W&P .

 

I agree about the early deacs going up in price as you can see this being the case all the time and it is deffo better than money in the bank but beware I once fell victim to a thief who stole several items of kit from my Dodge weapons carrier including a .50 cal Browning which was a very good replica with some original parts on it . I even had it chained and locked on - It took me 18 months to finally get it all cleared up including several interviews with the police!! So be warned other people see these items as valuable assetts also - I now watch my Genuine wartime fifty and dated ground mount like a hawk especially when mounted on the jeep!! as I would hate to try and find a replacement or go through all the hassle again!! So please be careful as not all interest in your kit is good interest cheers :coffee:

[Bodge Deep]

I went down the replica route.

I wanted the ANM2 aircraft version for a USAAF display and they're hens teeth so when a very good replica popped up on milweb last year at less than half the price of one of the "other .50 replicas" I jumped on it.

I've had stuff nicked from my truck too at events, it's a bad business.

I'd rather loose a couple of hundreds rather than grands... ouch :embarrassed:

[Lauren Child]

Is there any chance somebody could post some pics of the differences between versions? This may be a silly question, but I've not come across the differences before.

[airportable]

Is there any chance somebody could post some pics of the differences between versions? This may be a silly question, but I've not come across the differences before.

MY deact. cert states M2 HB. Can take as many pics. as required if wanted.

Dealer friend tells me that mine has been refurbished by the Rock Island Armouries, stamped with their own No's, but they take off some of the origonal Browning details, asked many times how old is it.

[Wolfy]

verrrrry nice! :cool2:

[Chris Hall]

MY deact. cert states M2 HB. Can take as many pics. as required if wanted.

Dealer friend tells me that mine has been refurbished by the Rock Island Armouries, stamped with their own No's, but they take off some of the origonal Browning details, asked many times how old is it.

 

It appears your M2 is of WWII manufacture, its definatly a M2HB, (M2 heavy barrel) and it will carry its original manufacturers serial number. I've got 2 RIA refurb guns, both have the original number, you will find the original maker on the front right of the side plate, probably AC sparkplugs or Fridgidair. Browning originally made another similar version to the M2HB but I believe they now make there own M2HBs. In the UK, Manroy engineering currently build M2s for the British MOD.

 

The diffrent M2 models are all based pretty much on the same model. The HB is the heavy barrel, as found on tanks, vehicles or tripods, the Heavy barrel being able to cope with better heat dissipation. The AC is the aircraft model and is a light weight item with a lighter barrel and a barre lcooling jacket (Like the 1919A4 .30 cal) and fires a little faster due to the lighter weight of the Barrel. There is a water cooled version which has a massive water jacket like a vickers gun.

 

The M3 is another aircraft gun which I think fires at a faster rate than the M2AC, and can feed from the left or right depending on requirements.

 

I know of some M2HBs and M3 for sale at the moment if anyone is after one.

 

Also, should say that all the M2s can be converted into any version, although this dosn't appear to happen much.

 

 

[CVRTNick]

With 50cals,I borrowed the real thing & its ground mount,which was sooooooooooo heavy.I must be getting old as in the 50cal vehicle TM for a ring mount its a 3-man lift,my replica is cast from ally & the barrel unscrews from the body,making a nice & light lift.On my replica,for two year's it had no hole in the barrel for the bullets to come out of it & no-one said anything,it being 12ft in the air I guess helps!

[Chris Hall]

Heres another shot of my M2, its WW2 vintage, the red colour is just the light, its in very good condition. Behind it you can see the 1919A4 with the M1 Ball Recoil boosters.

 

[airportable]

Thanks for the pics. Is that part of the breach underneath the gun? Would like to find a manual on stripping down and cleaning. Any tools needed to strip?

Will be at the Doncaster Avro museum Sun.(29th Aug) with mine on the M63 mount. SAMA event if in the area.

Sorry know were getting off thread title, but I'm sure fans of the .50 wont mind, do you?

[ferretfixer]

Thanks for the pics. Is that part of the breach underneath the gun? Would like to find a manual on stripping down and cleaning. Any tools needed to strip?

Will be at the Doncaster Avro museum Sun.(29th Aug) with mine on the M63 mount. SAMA event if in the area.

Sorry know were getting off thread title, but I'm sure fans of the .50 wont mind, do you?

 

The part under the gun is the buffer housing. It SHOULD contain an oil buffer & spring assembly. Also the depressor arms are missing from each side of it. If the gun was Deactivated by who I think it was, it was most likely put together from parts gathered at a Factory I know of . This does NOT matter in reality though, because the complete gun was assembled at one time from unnumbered parts. The ONLY Serial numbered part on a .30" or a .50" Cal MG iss the reciever anyway. I know, I used to build 'Em!

The above mentioned info shouldnt matter as it's only a Deact now! The action will still 'Dry Function'.

Mike

[Chris Hall]

 

Your correct, the gun itsself came from Rytons a long time back. The buffer housing underneath is a spare which belonged to a gun I used to own, which was chopped by Mike P (Is that you, or are you another Mike?). I've owned one other M2 which was in a real poor state (Rust, cracks and dents) which I sold to a Jeep enthusiast (He wanted a cheapy to leave in the rain) to buy the one shown in the photo.

 

I've also had a Genuine 1919A6 which I let go (Fool) when I should have kept it.

 

 

[ferretfixer]

Your correct, the gun itsself came from Rytons a long time back. The buffer housing underneath is a spare which belonged to a gun I used to own, which was chopped by Mike P (Is that you, or are you another Mike?). I've owned one other M2 which was in a real poor state (Rust, cracks and dents) which I sold to a Jeep enthusiast (He wanted a cheapy to leave in the rain) to buy the one shown in the photo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've also had a Genuine 1919A6 which I let go (Fool) when I should have kept it.

 

 

 

 

Mike.P is a VERY Good & Long standing friend of mine, of over 30 years. Rytons do a good job with thier Deacts. Everything is machined & not cut with an angle grinder!

 

As for your 1919A6, Well,...... we have all let things go that we later regret!

Mike.

[Chris Hall]

Mike Ps a real nice guy, I've been on the phone to him many times and I've got about 5 Brens in my collection that have been chopped by him. If anyones looking for a deac, he's happy to help.

 

This is my L4A2

 

 

Original 1919A6 as opposed to the israeli conversion.