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what clansman radio


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I want to fit a clansman radio into my vehicles . what model is installed in the.

 

Striker

Stormer

432

 

thanks Dan

 

UK/PRC-353, UK/VRC-321 are the most common.

 

As you surely know, Striker was the CVR(T) Swingfire ATGM launch vehicle. During my time they belonged to the RA and 15/19H battlegroup usually had a GW troop from J (Sidi Rezegh) Battery, 3 RHA attached (the Striker at Bovy bears J Bty markings). At other periods, GW support was organic to the battlegroup, such that 15/19H had a troop of Mark 5 Ferrets in 76-77 and I believe GW came back again after I had left.

 

(The ownership of diverse elements within a regiment has forever gone back and forth. This is a classic example: is it better for the RA to control guided missiles or for the RAC to control anti-tank weapons?)

 

Anyway. Trying to stay on topic. In 1976 (I don't think Striker was generally in service by then: like I said 15/19H had Mark 5 Ferrets) the Armd Recce Regiment's Command Net was on HF and we had C13 sets to work it. Other combat arms used VHF and had C42 A-sets for distance work and B47 B-sets for shorter-range work.

 

When Recce worked with other arms, we needed VHF. Section commanders' vehicles had a C42 B-set while section second-vehicles had a B47.

 

By 1977 when 3 Armd Div had deployed to BAOR, Recce sabre troops were only being issued VHF kit (C42 / B47) so that the whole combat team were using the same kit. Marvellous idea.

 

So during the Clansman period I'd expect Striker more likely than not to have UK/VRC 353 A-set for combat team / battle group command net work as stated by schliesser92. Might they have a 321? Well, being RA attached, I'd guess that they may want comms with their parent unit. VHF simply wouldn't have the range, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to find a 321 B-set tuned in to an RA guard net.

 

---ooo0ooo---

 

Stormer. I'd never heard of this vehicle until somebody posted a pic here recently. Since it looks like a stretched Spartan, I'll assume its role was APC. In the combat team role, as you can see from above, I'd expect a 353 A-set and a VHF B-set, which would probably have been a vehicle-mounted 351 / 352.

 

However we need a little aside here. Recce got Sultan ACVs at all levels as soon as they became available. Armour and infantry continued using 432 ACVs for a long time (like the rest of the army). I have been out a long time but I imagine having petrol-engined CVR(T)s in a diesel organisation like an armoured regiment or an mech inf bn is asking for a logistical nightmare. I understand that at some point, armour and inf got Sultan. I am fairly sure that on occasion, units used Spartan as an ACV in the absence of Sultan and managed quite nicely without all the headroom.

 

(The CO was given an Orbat - order of battle - which gave him so many vehicles and so many officers, NCOs and men to crew them. The CO could in fact do whatever he wanted.

 

I believe for example that officially according to the OrBat, the CO's rover was not a Land Rover, but a Mark 1 Ferret, which offered a little more armour protection than the thin aluminium skin of a Land Rover. However, half colonels are by nature of their experience, shall we say into middle age and the turret of a Ferret is more suited to a young man than a CO with the weight of The Regiment* about him. I never saw a CO in a Ferret: they all, without exception, gave their Ferrets to be Rebros. Sadly for the RSM, there simply weren't enough Land Rovers in the Orbat to let him have one, so the RSM was stuck with a Ferret.)

 

So, back to Stormer. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that units might locally designate one of these vehicles to be an ACV and have a non-standard radio fit including HF.

 

---ooo0ooo---

 

432. These were used in so many roles that your guess is as good as mine. In the infantry rifle section role I'd expect a 353 and a 351/2. In the armour / infantry battle group ACV role I'd expect to see a 353 to talk down to the combat teams, a 321 on the divisional guard net and some secure kit to talk up to Brigade / Division. In my day secure VHF provided by a modified Larkspur C42 because they hadn't got as far as encryption for Clansman so I can express no opinion on Clansman secure kit.

 

In the armour / infantry combat team ACV role I'd expect to see a 353 to talk down to rifle platoons, another to talk up to battle group and a 321 on the guard net.

 

But 432s, as schliesser92 can probably tell you better, had all sorts of configurations, being used at all sorts of higher formation HQs.

 

I hope this gives you a feel for just how much big the answer to your question is,

_____

 

* The SAS tell you that The Regiment is their term and applies to 22 SAS. This is rubbish. To every soldier who ever lived, The Regiment is The Family and whichever regiment it is, it is the best.

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As you surely know, Striker was the CVR(T) Swingfire ATGM launch vehicle. During my time they belonged to the RA and 15/19H battlegroup usually had a GW troop from J (Sidi Rezegh) Battery, 3 RHA attached (the Striker at Bovy bears J Bty markings). At other periods, GW support was organic to the battlegroup, such that 15/19H had a troop of Mark 5 Ferrets in 76-77 and I believe GW came back again after I had left.

 

(The ownership of diverse elements within a regiment has forever gone back and forth. This is a classic example: is it better for the RA to control guided missiles or for the RAC to control anti-tank weapons?)

 

Anyway. Trying to stay on topic. In 1976 (I don't think Striker was generally in service by then: like I said 15/19H had Mark 5 Ferrets) the Armd Recce Regiment's Command Net was on HF and we had C13 sets to work it. Other combat arms used VHF and had C42 A-sets for distance work and B47 B-sets for shorter-range work.

 

When Recce worked with other arms, we needed VHF. Section commanders' vehicles had a C42 B-set while section second-vehicles had a B47.

 

By 1977 when 3 Armd Div had deployed to BAOR, Recce sabre troops were only being issued VHF kit (C42 / B47) so that the whole combat team were using the same kit. Marvellous idea.

 

So during the Clansman period I'd expect Striker more likely than not to have UK/VRC 353 A-set for combat team / battle group command net work as stated by schliesser92. Might they have a 321? Well, being RA attached, I'd guess that they may want comms with their parent unit. VHF simply wouldn't have the range, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to find a 321 B-set tuned in to an RA guard net.

 

---ooo0ooo---

 

Stormer. I'd never heard of this vehicle until somebody posted a pic here recently. Since it looks like a stretched Spartan, I'll assume its role was APC. In the combat team role, as you can see from above, I'd expect a 353 A-set and a VHF B-set, which would probably have been a vehicle-mounted 351 / 352.

 

However we need a little aside here. Recce got Sultan ACVs at all levels as soon as they became available. Armour and infantry continued using 432 ACVs for a long time (like the rest of the army). I have been out a long time but I imagine having petrol-engined CVR(T)s in a diesel organisation like an armoured regiment or an mech inf bn is asking for a logistical nightmare. I understand that at some point, armour and inf got Sultan. I am fairly sure that on occasion, units used Spartan as an ACV in the absence of Sultan and managed quite nicely without all the headroom.

 

(The CO was given an Orbat - order of battle - which gave him so many vehicles and so many officers, NCOs and men to crew them. The CO could in fact do whatever he wanted.

 

I believe for example that officially according to the OrBat, the CO's rover was not a Land Rover, but a Mark 1 Ferret, which offered a little more armour protection than the thin aluminium skin of a Land Rover. However, half colonels are by nature of their experience, shall we say into middle age and the turret of a Ferret is more suited to a young man than a CO with the weight of The Regiment* about him. I never saw a CO in a Ferret: they all, without exception, gave their Ferrets to be Rebros. Sadly for the RSM, there simply weren't enough Land Rovers in the Orbat to let him have one, so the RSM was stuck with a Ferret.)

 

So, back to Stormer. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that units might locally designate one of these vehicles to be an ACV and have a non-standard radio fit including HF.

 

---ooo0ooo---

 

432. These were used in so many roles that your guess is as good as mine. In the infantry rifle section role I'd expect a 353 and a 351/2. In the armour / infantry battle group ACV role I'd expect to see a 353 to talk down to the combat teams, a 321 on the divisional guard net and some secure kit to talk up to Brigade / Division. In my day secure VHF provided by a modified Larkspur C42 because they hadn't got as far as encryption for Clansman so I can express no opinion on Clansman secure kit.

 

In the armour / infantry combat team ACV role I'd expect to see a 353 to talk down to rifle platoons, another to talk up to battle group and a 321 on the guard net.

 

But 432s, as schliesser92 can probably tell you better, had all sorts of configurations, being used at all sorts of higher formation HQs.

 

I hope this gives you a feel for just how much big the answer to your question is,

_____

 

* The SAS tell you that The Regiment is their term and applies to 22 SAS. This is rubbish. To every soldier who ever lived, The Regiment is The Family and whichever regiment it is, it is the best.

 

 

 

I have been thinking about posting a similar question to this myself for some time but haven't as I was afraid the answer might be something like this ie just about anything could be possible !

 

In simple terms though the most simple set up would be a VRC353, although it sounds like this could well be augmented with a 321 or a PRC type set, BUT....

 

I've seen a few vehicles with two VRC353's fitted side by side - would this really have happened and what purpose would it serve...?

 

Cheers !

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I've seen a few vehicles with two VRC353's fitted side by side - would this really have happened and what purpose would it serve...?

 

Cheers !

My considered opinion is that outside of recce, troop / platoon commanders might have 2 times 353, but I doubt it. Below combat team level, frequencies were only allocated for the combat team command net. Alternative frequencies were provided, but these were for use when the first frequency became unusable (due to terrain or more likely jamming) and there would only be one or two: not enough for every troop to grab one and use it as a chatter net (as occasionally a troop leader might do so that he could micro-manage his troop on an important task without the whole combat team interrupting). Intra-troop comms would not demand a 353.

 

In recce we did have two times 353 side by side in Scorpions and Scimitars between ... hmm ... 1980 into 1982 (when I left) at least, but as I was leaving, it was becoming clear that two times 353 was overkill even for recce (where comms were the top priority, to get information into the CoC) and the replacement of one by a 351/2 was being planned. This would have the added advantage of making a dismounted recce easier.

 

My Ferret needed two times 353 fitted side by side so that I could rebroadcast the battlegroup or divisional command net if the tactical or technical situation demanded it.

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I have been thinking about posting a similar question to this myself for some time but haven't as I was afraid the answer might be something like this ie just about anything could be possible !

 

In simple terms though the most simple set up would be a VRC353, although it sounds like this could well be augmented with a 321 or a PRC type set, BUT....

 

I've seen a few vehicles with two VRC353's fitted side by side - would this really have happened and what purpose would it serve...?

 

Cheers !

 

Yes. Due to the vagueries of radio communication (climatic conditions, terrain etc) it may be necessary to put a relay station in somewhere. This is known in "steam radio" (I was radio-relay) circles as RADIO REBROADCAST. Additionally, in a command role, it may be necessary to maintain two separate radio nets. It all depends on the structure and role of the unit concerned.

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Same radio's side by side = rebroadcast station

 

Sweeping statement. Like I said, Scorpions in the first years of Clansman had two times 353 side by side, but control signallers with the nouse to set them to rebro would be thin on the ground, and why deny a sabre troop a vehicle when there were rebro ferrets in the Orbat for that specific purpose?

 

Any two compatible (ie either Clansman Larkspur) or VHF radios (didn't have to be the same radio) could rebroadcast automatically, I agree, but in three years in a rebro Ferret, I only once actually got to fulfil the role, and I wasn't even exercising myself: I was rebroadcasting an umpire net.

 

Furthermore, it was also possible, with control signaller training, to manually rebroadcast using an HF and a VHF set side by side, but the tactical or technical situation where this might be necessary was extremely unlikely ever to occur.

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