deac rules

[griff66]

can any one help,does the deac cert form a integral part of the deac status of a gun ie no cert gun stamped with crossed sword and date of deac

do i need to get gun recerted at proof house ? cheers

[ferretfixer]

can any one help,does the deac cert form a integral part of the deac status of a gun ie no cert gun stamped with crossed sword and date of deac

do i need to get gun recerted at proof house ? cheers

 

Police are told that a DEAC MUST have a cert. This I have discovered it what they are tought!

Unbleviably, WE know more about the Firearms Act than your general Plod does!

The three Deact marks are what is important. The cert is purely Evidential, But IS an important aspect of Deact ownership. Your discription of the mark/ stamp of crossed swords is from the Birmingham Proof house. London is an arm holding a scimitar. It is a simple matter to obtain a replacement cert if you have lost one or it has been destroyed. You simply resubmit the item for RE-CERTIFICATION to the Proof house in question. However. you can submit to EITHER Proof house for Certification, EVEN if it has been already done by one of the others. They will simply mark it with thier OWN Deact Proof marks. this will mean the item has two different sets of Deact marking, but does NOT Matter at all. I have done this for customers HUNDEREDS of times! I have bought hundereds of Deacts without certifictaes & submitted them myself for RE Certification, with NO problem. Remember, in Law, the Cert is evidential, it is the DEACT PROOF MARKS THAT PROVE THE WEAPON IS DEACTIVATED! (Unless some Idiot has recativated it if course. & then it will be seized & sumitted to Forensics for testing)

[andreadavide]

The proof houses keeping a record of all deacs with make, model and serial so that just a check on the database is needed.... too easy?

 

You need the Sacred Piece Of Paper....

 

Bah.... bureaucracy.....

 

Andrea

[REME 245]

The Police would say that only specifically trained officers are qualified to examine a weapon and decide if it is legally deactivated.

 

Hence without a certificate they are in their rights to seize a weapon until such time as it can be expertly examined.

 

Having done this provided no one has interfeared with the deact spec i.e. making the barrel come off a post 94 Bren Gun, they have to hand it back.

[Tony B]

There should also be a date of de-activation stamped with the proof marks. This effects the work require i.e. welded actions on later self loading or automatic weapons.

Edited July 27, 2010 by Tony B

[ferretfixer]

The proof houses keeping a record of all deacs with make, model and serial so that just a check on the database is needed.... too easy?

 

You need the Sacred Piece Of Paper....

 

Bah.... bureaucracy.....

 

Andrea

 

Definitve Answer

 

 

 

This is partly correct. It is true that ALL the Deacts that have passed inspection & have been marked. Are registered on a computer Database at each proof house. This means that If you submit one for RE-Certification, they will examine the item for Deac Proof marks & also inspect it to see it has not been tampered with. If it is OK, it is a simple matter for the staff to check the date on the proof marks & the Weapon Serial Number. Tap in that Info on thier computer, & your weapon will come up on the screen. Press print, & a replacment Cert will be run off of a roll of perforated paper. The same as the original cert was. (London Proof House) I have seen & gone through this procedure, HUNDEREDS of times!

 

I Reitterate: HOWEVER, IF, the Deact was Originally passed at the Birmingham Proofhouse & Submitted at the London one. It will be inspected & marked with the LONDON Proof house deact marks as well. (As if it was an inistal submisson) And the SAME procedure would apply if you submitted an example to Birmingham & it was originaly a London Marked Gun.

 

Although doing the same Jobs & proceedures in different parts of the country. Each Proof House has Different looking distinctive proof marks & slightly different Looking Deact Certs.

BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, THEY BOTH MEAN THE SAME THING!

I hope this clears up any ambiguities?:-)

Mike.

[andreadavide]

Mike,

I was simply saying that a paper certificate is simply an unneccessary complication, once there is a database of deacs available to the Police.

 

One could tamper with a deac even with a certificate well kept together with it.....

A sensible procedure would be, in case of a control, that the Police check if the weapon was legally deac, then, if doubts arise about it having been "reac" then have it inspected.

 

Andrea

[ferretfixer]

Mike,

I was simply saying that a paper certificate is simply an unneccessary complication, once there is a database of deacs available to the Police.

 

One could tamper with a deac even with a certificate well kept together with it.....

A sensible procedure would be, in case of a control, that the Police check if the weapon was legally deac, then, if doubts arise about it having been "reac" then have it inspected.

 

Andrea

 

Andrea, I hear what you are saying. But i would hazzard a guess that people in general would not be happy about a main Database. It's a bit MORE Big Brother-ish pressure! Again the more insidious side would be the thought that if they had a database, they would then only be step away from registering who has what & so forth. If they decide to ban Deacs in the future (Doubtfull, though i wouldnt put ANYTHING past our Governments!) then it's simple matter to know who owns what & if they had been handed in. Sounds far fetched? I worked in the Met for Two years as a Copper, & I wouldnt trust any of them with a water pistol. Let alone a Deac!!!! :shocked:

They have instruction that if in doubt, seize it. Then submit to forensic lab for inspection. They will check out the deac marks & work & give it back if it's a legally held item. A bit of a labourous process I know. but they dont give a F*** as it's not there property. & they dont care a jot about all the stress & pressure on the owner awaiting the outcome either!! :-(

Mike

[andreadavide]

Well... if deacs were outlawed only outlaws will have deacs.

 

Just a question. Cost of technical check and of handling/restitution of the weapon are borne by the plods or by the owner?

[Marmite!!]

This means that If you submit one for RE-Certification, they will examine the item for Deac Proof marks & also inspect it to see it has not been tampered with. If it is OK, it is a simple matter for the staff to check the date on the proof marks & the Weapon Serial Number.

 

Both proof houses say replacement certs are not available & have to be resubmitted & reproofed. If you re-submit a pre 95 spec it will have to be brought up to current spec before it is submitted.

[REME 245]

Just a question. Cost of technical check and of handling/restitution of the weapon are borne by the plods or by the owner?

 

Not totally sure what you are asking, but if the Police seized your weapon for further inspection because you did not have a deact certificate this would be at their cost.

 

They would probably then tell you to collect from a location of their choice.

 

If you decided to get a replacement deac certificate this would be your choice and at your expense.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Marmite!!
quote tags

[griff66]

have got a certificate today from london proof house in person took half an hour cost 40 quid parked right outside the place.

[Lardrover]

have got a certificate today from london proof house in person took half an hour cost 40 quid parked right outside the place.

 

Sorry Griff, remind me, this was to replace the original missing cert? No further work done to the deac to bring it to current spec, i.e. welding up what was a pre-95? Or was it a post 95 already.

Ta

[5645andym]

can any one help,does the deac cert form a integral part of the deac status of a gun ie no cert gun stamped with crossed sword and date of deac

do i need to get gun recerted at proof house ? cheers

 

Short version is that a firearm is classed as "de-activated" if it can no longer discharge any shot, bullet or other missile AND that deactivation is intended to be permanent AND the firearm is incapable of being reactivated without specialist tools or skills.

 

So in law no Certificate is actually needed but (and there is always a but) without an approved Proof House mark and the matching Certificate the police can not presume that it is de-activated and you may find that it is seised and you have to prove it is not "live" (and highly illegal).

 

With the approved Proof House mark and the matching Cerificate the item will (under S.8 of the Firearms Amendment Act 1988) be presumed to be de-activated and so you should be ok if the police ever decide to raid your home after the neighbours phone to say they have seen guns in your living room...

 

Best bet is to have the right paperwork and to keep it handy along with copies of the relevant bits of the Firarms Act, Guidence to Prosecutors etc!!!

[griff66]

it was a 03 deac as long as it is marked with a deac stamp when they issue a cert for a lost cert they look at it and if deac is correct for when stamp marked no further work is done mine was and still is able to dry fire now with a london 2010 proof mark barrel was and still is welded up,

Edited July 30, 2010 by griff66