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Guy vix-ants - queens messengers


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Some more vehicles for the Ministry of Food and the Queen's Messenger food convoys.

Some observations -

Conveniently there are 21 Ford WOA-2 utility vehicles but only 13 motorcycles, even these consist of five different makes! The Commer Canteens were a surprise, I wasn't aware the Queen's Messengers used these chassis'.

CUN 358 is a Bedford OYC chassis, previous canteens were on the OXD chassis.

The last licensed dates are as they appear on the cards. Some of them would appear to be incorrect but this time I double-checked as I made the notes!

 

 

 

Queen's Messenger Vehicles 4.doc

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Thanks Dusty-- Have you a copy of HOME FRONT TRANSPORT by Alan HOUSE 305 pages of WW2 & post war home defence vehicle. there is a picture of a Commer canteen on page 250 - unfortunately Alan admits his vehicle recognition is not too hot-and he has wrongly labeled it as an Austin. Somewhere ? I have a picture of one of the WOA-2s delivering hot food containers to a rural location- I don't know if its a school or a location for Land Army/ Forestry Corps girls. There is a pic on the IWM site of a CMP 15 cwt in service delivering hot meals to a school. You can order the book from Hants fire & rescue HQ Alan was until recently Dep CFO . If I find the WOA-2 pic I will post it.

TED

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Thanks Dusty-- Have you a copy of HOME FRONT TRANSPORT by Alan HOUSE 305 pages of WW2 & post war home defence vehicle. there is a picture of a Commer canteen on page 250 - unfortunately Alan admits his vehicle recognition is not too hot-and he has wrongly labeled it as an Austin. Somewhere ? I have a picture of one of the WOA-2s delivering hot food containers to a rural location- I don't know if its a school or a location for Land Army/ Forestry Corps girls. There is a pic on the IWM site of a CMP 15 cwt in service delivering hot meals to a school. If I find the WOA-2 pic I will post it.

TED

 

 

Hello Ted

 

Yes I have a copy of this excellent book and looking at the photo on page 250 I see there is no mention of the Queen's Messengers, just Ministry of Food. Perhaps these Commers weren't for the Queen's Messengers but for another organisation. On page 249 in the same book there is a photograph of some mobile canteens operated by the Salvation Army, perhaps these were also supplied through the Ministry of Food.

 

I have found about 150 Chevrolet trucks with CUN registration numbers. I'm assuming these were registered by the Ministry of Food but who for I can't say. Most survived into the 1950s and last owners were usually private, in a few cases though they were latterly operated by local council education departments for their school meals service. Perhaps that was the original function of all of them.

 

In an earlier post Alan states there are a number of files relating to Canteen vehicles at the National Archives, perhaps the answers can be found within their pages.

 

Dusty

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Hi Dusty, If you look at the various pictures of the Bedfords , the Ants and the Commer All have Food Flying Squad on the side plus the donor- which for some is H.M. Queen or a donor nation- The Queens Messenger Convoy mark was normally only on the "Luton Head " and in the case of the tankers on the rear. The Queens Messenger Convoy was coined from the first batches being funded by the Queen, but it appears on all pictures I have seen irrespective of the vehicle donor.

My understanding is all the various canteens Salvation Army Church Army YMCA etc were funded by public donation and built by various bodybuilders. I recall reading somewhere that the government were tearing their hair out over all the hundreds of different ambulances and canteens being brought into use from donations due to the inability to source spare parts and keep them operational without causing upset to the donors.

TED

Edited by ted angus
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The reason these vehicles were registered in Ruthin was that the Ministry of Food offices were evacuated to Colwyn Bay for the duration of the war and Colwyn Bay was in Denbighshire during that period. A forties day is being held in Colwyn Bay tomorrow 21st April with a particular interest in the M.O.F. in this period.

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All this recent activity is very appropriate if there's a big event tomorrow!

 

With thanks to Dusty's efforts I can now attach a combined list which also details other tit-bits gleaned from the National Archive files. The Commers were certainly a surprise and were used as 'welfare vans' (pictures please!); and the OYC chassis explains the file note that exists for CUN 358:

Ministry of Food QMC fleet.pdf

Ministry of Food QMC donors.pdf

Edited by Runflat
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And as a bit of fun (although deadly serious at the time) are extracts from file INF 6/488:

 

The Ministry of Information presents THE QUEEN’S MESSENGERS – a Jay Lewis Production (of Strand Film Co. Ltd.). (Commissioned 4 April 1941, copy lodged with the Imperial War Museum, September 8th, 1952.)

 

Associate Producer: Basil Wright

Directed by Jay G Lewis

Camera: A E Gibbs & Jo Jago

Commentator: Frederick Allen

Editor: Michael Gordon

Recordist: Al Rhind

 

Mrs. Higgins: I bet he pays us a visit tonight.

 

 

Joe: Aye. We’ve had our turn.

 

 

Man at bar: Don’t you worry Ma.

 

 

Mrs. Higgins: Who’s worrying?

 

 

Landlord: Cheerio.

 

 

Joe: Here! What’s up with the wireless?

 

 

Landlord: Must be a raid on Mrs. Thomas.

 

 

Mrs. Higgins: There you are. He always comes at and spoils my supper time, when I’ve just got something nice. Last time he came to Oldcastle I ‘ad a lovely piece of tripe – a really lovely piece it were.

 

 

(Raid noises)

 

 

Operator: Yes. Yes. Oldcastle is it? Right I’ll ring him at once... Hello – Flying Squad? Call the Q.M.

 

 

 

Change to Queen’s Messenger Depot

 

Mr. Cooper: Mrs. Brooks No.9 Store Lorry; Mrs. Talbot No.10 Store Lorry; Mrs. Turner No.11 Kitchen Lorry; Mrs. Preedy No.12 Kitchen Lorry; Mrs. Ald No.13 Canteen; Mrs. Garland No.14 Canteen; Mrs. Mills No.15 Canteen. Mrs. Griggs – is everybody here?

 

 

Mrs. Griggs: Yes Mr. Cooper.

 

 

Mr. Cooper: Fine – we can get going now.

 

 

Commentator: The Queen’s Messengers are on their way. Driving through the night to a neighbouring town that has suffered an air raid. Their job is to help with food and comfort where the blitz has upset local arrangements. Provided by Her Majesty, the Queen, and friendly Americans, the convoy consists of eight specially designed lorries with cooking equipment, food stores and a water container. N 18 of these convoys are to be placed all over the country, staffed by the Women’s Voluntary Service Workers, ready at a minute’s notice.

 

 

The QUEEN’S MESSENGERS are on their way.

 

 

After their drive through the darkness, the Messengers enter the battered town. Motor cyclist patrols have made contact with the local authorities, and now they lead the convoy through the bombed streets to a place which will serve as headquarters during their stay.

 

 

Joe: If only the dratted gas and electric hadn’t gone.

 

 

Mrs. Higgins: Go to the Rest Centre, they says. I wasn’t going to leave my ‘ome for no one. I got poor Mr. Higgins’ picture out alright. Look – 32 years ago he had that took – just after we came to live here. Oh well perhaps it’s just as well he never lived to see his ‘ome like this.

 

 

Joe: If only I could get a nice hot cup of tea, I’d be alright.

 

 

Mrs. Higgins: Yes, that’s what I’d like. A nice hot cup of tea.

 

 

Commentator: Tea will soon be ready, and hot soup too, for the Messengers carry their own stoves. All day these women will be making soup, tea and thousands of sandwiches.

 

 

Leader of Q.M.: Are you loaded up Mrs. Orme?

 

 

Mrs. Orme: All except two soups.

 

 

Mr. Cooper: A Dispatch Rider’s going out – I want you to follow him.

 

 

Leader of Q.M.: Very well.

 

 

Two more Messengers: We’re quite ready Mrs. Griggs.

 

 

Mrs. Griggs: Good. You’d better go to the street outside, and you go with her.

 

 

Commentator: Led by a patrol rider who has explored the neighbourhood beforehand, a canteen is going to an outlying district. In each convoy there are three canteens and they move from one district to another as conditions demand. Patrol riders keep in contact between canteens and headquarters.

 

 

Mrs. Higgins: Last time I came to Oldcastle I ‘ad a nice bit of tripe – a really lovely piece of tripe it were. I was just putting it in a pan,...

 

 

Joe: I should think old Hitler’s heard about that tripe by now.

 

 

Mrs. Higgins: And what’s it to you Mr. Thomas?

 

 

Joe: Look!

 

 

(Chatter)

 

 

Commentator: From dawn to dusk hot soup, tea, bread and margarine and sandwiches can be fed to 5,000 refugees a day. In this war everyone is in the front line, and the Queen’s Messengers are ready – ready to serve anywhere in their work of providing food and comfort for the suffering.

 

 

THE END

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Gents some great info thank you, Lesa Freathy has just put a couple of shots onto his album :

Guy Ant

 

Some years ago before I ever saw a picture of a guy ant tanker I made a model of one !!! hee hee how can that be you may ask ? I had a vision !!!! anyways its not correct but I will dig it out and take a shot . I will trawl my pictures and see how many donors it reveals .

Regards TED

Edited by ted angus
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Excellent lists and notes Alan, thank you.

 

There seems to be a shortage of motorcycles from early 1941, I wonder if they had been supplied by the Ministry of Works with London registration numbers rather than with local Denbighshire numbers?

 

The few fleet numbers that are quoted seem all over the place, presumably the Queen's Messenger convoys didn't have a block all of their own.

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A good bit of team work all round on this subject. And all the better if others enjoy the fruits as as well. Still plenty of unanswered questions though.

 

Love the WOA2 photo, by the way. A sign writer's dream!

Edited by Runflat
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  • 2 weeks later...

Queen's Hotel.jpg

 

 

As I was passing yesterday thought I would photograph what used to be the Queen's Hotel in Old Colwyn, taken over for the duration of the war by the Ministry of Food and the address where all the Queen's Messenger vehicles were registered.

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  • 2 months later...

Dear friends !

 

Looking through the Internet, I have found, that there were short-base and long-base Guy Vixant trucks in Britain. And I have some questions about this type:

1) When short-base Vixant trucks were produced, and when - long-base trucks ?

2) What are main differences between Guy Ant wartime truck and Guy Vixant wartime truck ?

3) Can I use wartime-issued Manual on Vixant truck for the references on Guy Ant wartime truck ?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Regards,

Modello.

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A good question. My guess is that a Vix-Ant is a cross between a civilian Vixen and the Ant style wartime cab. The Ant, whilst using Vixen components, also had, for example, larger section tyres.

 

As far as I'm aware the Ant only came in short wheelbase form and supplied principally to Government departments, whereas the Vix-Ant was supplied to the wartime civilian market.

 

Lots of interesting Guy information here:

http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/commercial/Guy/guyhistory4.htm

http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/commercial/Guy/guyhistory5.htm

Edited by Runflat
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  • 3 months later...
Yes. Interestingly, official documents say four columns went to the Dutch Government.

 

It would be interesting to hear more about what happened after they left Britain.

 

 

From post #6 and #19 I learned they were handed over to the Dutch Government in December 1944. As to what happened after they left Britain, I only have two clues:

 

The first one, quoted from the other thread on this subject:

In 1944/45 some of these vehicles were sent oversea's, for example, to the Dutch Island of Walcheren, for the relief of victims of the excessive floods'. (the above taken from Bedford and Vauxhall Military Vehicles, Bart Vanderveen)

 

The other is a picture I found on MiliBlog captioned as "Bedford OXD 30cwt Dutch Canteen":

 

bedford-oxd-30cwt-dutch-canteen.jpg

 

After searching the internet for a while I found out that it is sporting the black livery of the NIWIN or "Nationale Inspanning Welzijnsverzorging Indië" ("National Effort Welfare Care Indionesia"). NIWIN was an alliance of private welfare organizations for the benefit of the Dutch soldiers in Indonesia (formerly the Netherlands East Indies). NIWIN raised money and arranged for magazines, sports equipment, books and films for the troops, cigarettes, chocolate etc. and organized programs for development and relaxation. They arranged for Christmas hampers and from June 1949 also the so-called jungle chests, with sports and game items for the soldiers at the outposts.

 

Even though it says "geschonken door de gemeente ... ", which means "donated by the municipality ... " (somehow the name of the municipality is unreadable), I think there is a more direct link with Princess Juliana who is pictured in the hand over in post #19. As it happens, her husband Prince Bernhard was the chairman of the Committee NIWIN.

 

This last one is from The Times, Saturday, December 16, 1944:-

 

FOR HOLLAND: The Queen with Princess Juliana standing by one of the mobile canteens she has given for service in Holland. Altogether she handed over two "Queen's Messenger" convoys, 22 vehicles, to the Princess for the use of the Dutch Government.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]59170[/ATTACH]

 

Not sure yet how many of these Queen's Messengers Bedfords ended up in the hands of NIWIN and if any of them were shipped out to Indonesia.

 

Hope this is of interest,

regards,

Hanno

Edited by mcspool
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That's fascinating Hanno, thanks very much. Do share any more information you find. Do we have anyone on the forum in Indonesia who can follow the story through there?

 

And anyone in Switzerland who wants to look through the UNNRA records at the UN? Click on the Belgium and Demark entries here, for example, and there are files on vehicles / trucks: http://archives.un.org/ARMS/Records-Predecessor-Organizations

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Runflat,

 

Meanwhile I found a picture of another Bedford here, pictured in Soest, Holland, ca. 1946(?)

 

1997-01-15-foto-cantineviwim-auto_cropped.jpg

 

The people in the picture were busy collecting funds: note the collection boxes plus speakers on the roof. Reportedly another picture showed a sign "This car can be donated by the municipality of Soest".

 

The third picture I found shows a picture-postcard with the text "OK Vlaardingen also sympathizes with the boys overseas!". The picture-postcard clearly used the first picture I posted, and this was probably used as a master for a series of postcards for different municipalities (hence the name of the municipality on the truck is unreadable in the master).

 

Dutch Bedford OX canteen postcard.jpg

 

So apparently there was quite an extensive drive to collect funds from the people in Holland to buy vehicles like this to support the troops in Indonesia.

 

Therefore we can be sure they were at least used in Holland to raise funds, but we're not sure yet if the Bedfords were actually shipped out to Indonesia.

 

Hanno

Edited by mcspool
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not sure of a Soest in the Netherlands,.......deffo one in the Rhur area of Germany.....?

 

Hi Ashley,

 

No need to doubt about it, this truck was pictured in Soest, the Netherlands.

There even is a Royal connection again, Princess Juliana's Soestdijk palace is located nearby....

 

H.

Edited by mcspool
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  • 11 months later...
Yes. Interestingly, official documents say four columns went to the Dutch Government. It would be interesting to hear more about what happened after they left Britain.

 

To get back on this subject: we learned from Bart Vanderveen that some of these vehicles were sent to the Dutch Island of Walcheren, for the relief of victims of the excessive floods.

 

Just recently, Jan Roelse, a friend of mine who lives on Walcheren, sent me the attached picture of a Bedford OX canteen truck in Vlissingen. This is the first picture I have seen of one of these convoy vehicles in use in the Netherlands during WW2.

 

Of interest is the added white invasion star and the stencilling on the side "Aangeboden door H.M. de Koningin van Engeland" denoting it was offered by HM the Queen of England.

 

Bedford Canteen.jpg

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