question Towing a casualty

[antarmike]

Yes Mike, but that applies to vehicles used commercially and taxed as recovery vehicles restricted by C&U and taxation class. My own point is about private and historic registered vehicles being used to move another vehicle. Most of us do it from time to time.....

Iain

Various people have widened the thread to tell of their experience with commercial recovery firms, I posted that link specifically to show what a responsible , professional recovery firms understanding of their position is,

 

As I said earlier

I am not aware if the same, minimum distance, to get to a safe place or place where it can be repaired rule applies to a private vehicle recovering another......

 

......

Edited March 24, 2010 by antarmike

[Mk3iain]

Thanks Mike for all your efforts and advice lately.

 

It is a damn nightmare trying to enjoy our vehicles and be sure we are staying within the "letter of the law".

 

Cheers

Iain

[Grumpy]

I think you are okay to tow, but be aware that when someone is recovering a vehicle (as a commercial operator of a vehicle registered as Road Recovery) they are only allowed to tow it the shortest distance to get the casualty to a safe place, or the nearest place where it can be repaired. If you have a chosen garage where you want it repaired, and there happens to be one nearer that could do the work, then you have to take it to the nearest, not the one of your choice.

 

Likewise, according to the law, a vehicle, taxed as recovery cannot legally tow a casualty all the way to the owners home, if there is a nearer place of safety, or a place where it can be repaired nearer than the persons home.

 

Once recovered to a place of safety or the closest place where it can be repaired, if it is decided to take it to the persons home, it cannot legally be done on a recovery road tax, the car needs to be put on a trailer and towed by a vehicle taxed PLG PHGV whatever, or put Beaver tail vehicle with similar tax disc.

 

This rule is largely flouted by most recovery operators, including the two major motorists assistance organisations.

 

 

Light blue touch paper and retire immediately......

 

Are you sure Mike ?

Exert from STGO regulations Schedule 4 Part 4

7. - (1) Except as stated in sub-paragraph (2), a road recovery vehicle may carry or tow a disabled vehicle or vehicle-combination when conveying it to a destination in accordance with the instructions of the owner or driver of the vehicle or when conveying it to an appropriate destination for repair.

 

(2) Where a recovery of a disabled vehicle or vehicle-combination is effected by using a drawbar or lift-and-tow method, the road recovery vehicle must not carry or tow the disabled vehicle or vehicle-combination any further than is reasonably necessary in order to clear any road obstructed by it and to facilitate the use of roads by other persons.

[antarmike]

I am not sure of anything anymore apart rom the fact there is a hot bath poured, and another Speckled Hen with my name on it is by the taps, and the lid is in the bin.....

Edited March 24, 2010 by antarmike

[Grumpy]

Hmmm Speckle Hen, now your talking, forget all this nato green stuff lets talk about the important things in life:-D

[radiomike7]

Are you sure Mike ?

 

Exert from STGO regulations Schedule 4 Part 4

 

7. - (1) Except as stated in sub-paragraph (2), a road recovery vehicle may carry or tow a disabled vehicle or vehicle-combination when conveying it to a destination in accordance with the instructions of the owner or driver of the vehicle or when conveying it to an appropriate destination for repair.

 

(2) Where a recovery of a disabled vehicle or vehicle-combination is effected by using a drawbar or lift-and-tow method, the road recovery vehicle must not carry or tow the disabled vehicle or vehicle-combination any further than is reasonably necessary in order to clear any road obstructed by it and to facilitate the use of roads by other persons.

 

 

7(1) suggests you can tow any distance any destination and (2) says you cannot, or am I reading this incorrectly?

[N.O.S.]

Mike - according to the wording above, you cannot use a lift-and-tow method (e.g. underlift) or a drawbar for longer than essential journeys.

 

So best to use a good old tow rope, that way you will be able to go as far as you wish :D

 

Suppose some bright spark will tell us that a tow rope is a drawbar next........

[radiomike7]

Mike - according to the wording above, you cannot use a lift-and-tow method (e.g. underlift) or a drawbar for longer than essential journeys.

 

So best to use a good old tow rope, that way you will be able to go as far as you wish :D

 

Suppose some bright spark will tell us that a tow rope is a drawbar next........

 

Exactly, what a minefield. Perhaps recovery crews should all use Militant mk3s and push casualties with the built in push pads rather than towing. Now that would get VOSA going.:-D

[Grumpy]

Part 1 states you can CARRY or tow with a recovery vehicle.

Carry by means of a recovery trailer or loaded on a recovery vehicle.

Tow by means of suspended tow, ridged bar, bit of baling twine etc.

Part 2 states you can only tow a reasonable distance to clear the highway, you can CARRY as far as you like.

[Grumpy]

Exactly, what a minefield. Perhaps recovery crews should all use Militant mk3s and push casualties with the built in push pads rather than towing. Now that would get VOSA going.:-D

 

Don’t you think I get enough hassle as it is; the incident of a Militant pulling a wheelie over a police car had nothing to do with me :nut:

[antarmike]

http://www.avrouk.com/page115.asp

Obviously AVRO are not familiar with Military vehicles, a lot of which are built with a coupling to activate the towed vehicles brakes, in sync with the Towing Tractor brakes!!,

 

But otherwise some useful stuff.

Edited March 25, 2010 by antarmike

[antarmike]

http://www.northlincs.gov.uk/NorthLincs/Transportandstreets/roads/roadsafety/Factsheets/Towing.htm

Quting from above

Towing distance

A broken down vehicle when it is being towed is a trailer and when attached to the vehicle in front only by a rope or chain, the distance between the two shall not be greater than 1.5m unless the rope or chain can be made clearly visible, and must not be greater than 4.5m in any case.

[Mk3iain]

I think it is all starting to make sense.

In its basic and most simple interpretation( its all I can cope with now).

The limitations on towing a casualty to a place of repair or far enough to clear a carriageway, are in effect when the towed vehicle does not comply with C&U regs as a trailer. In situations where the combination is in full compliance ie coupled brakes, lights etc all is well and no (?)limitations apply.

I will read this again tommorow and see if it still makes sense!

I need more Glenmorangie (cellar 13 does the trick).

[antarmike]

I think it is all starting to make sense.

In its basic and most simple interpretation( its all I can cope with now).

The limitations on towing a casualty to a place of repair or far enough to clear a carriageway, are in effect when the towed vehicle does not comply with C&U regs as a trailer. In situations where the combination is in full compliance ie coupled brakes, lights etc all is well and no (?)limitations apply.

I will read this again tommorow and see if it still makes sense!

I need more Glenmorangie (cellar 13 does the trick).

 

The problemis that when a vehicle combination doesn't conform to C and U and has to be done under special types, nobody thought to make the operation exempt from notification, so as things stand now, you can only tow the shortest possible distance to clear an obstruction or remove to a place of safety, if you give the Police and bridge authorities two days notice of the intented move Really handy when you have a casualty in a dangerous position, causing an obstruction and risking causing an accident...

 

and that is clearly one of the biggest c0ck ups in legisaltive history!!!

Edited March 26, 2010 by antarmike

[cosrec]

To say once more if it has or should have a tax disc in the window it is a broken down vehicle not a trailor with one exception a laden artic is classed as two trailors when it is been towed up to that piont it is a bdv . Example if you where towing a camping trailor and had a wheel bearing go and you left it at side of road to go get help you could be liable for prosoction for no lights, Same set up but alternater gone and you left trailor and vehicle and walked for help no offence. BDVS are excused lights trailors arnt

[antarmike]

To say once more if it has or should have a tax disc in the window it is a broken down vehicle not a trailor with one exception a laden artic is classed as two trailors when it is been towed up to that piont it is a bdv . Example if you where towing a camping trailor and had a wheel bearing go and you left it at side of road to go get help you could be liable for prosoction for no lights, Same set up but alternater gone and you left trailor and vehicle and walked for help no offence. BDVS are excused lights trailors arnt

Sorry we'll have to disagree on this one, everything I read tells me a towed broken down vehicle, when being towed is a trailer.

 

Even to the point that the law clarifies that a car carried on a transporter dolly is one trailer, not two, and the law sees a car running with one pair of wheels on a dolly and one pair running on the road is to be viewed as a single trailer.

 

Can you point me to a single bit of legislation that states that a casulaty , when towed, is a vehicle, and not a trailer. I have already indicated the legislation that says it is a trailer.

[radiomike7]

http://www.avrouk.com/page115.asp

Obviously AVRO are not familiar with Military vehicles, a lot of which are built with a coupling to activate the towed vehicles brakes, in sync with the Towing Tractor brakes!!,

 

But otherwise some useful stuff.

 

Usual way to recover an artic with lift and tow is to plumb in to the trailer air ports which at least gives trailer brakes operated from the recovery vehicle although the tractor rear axle(s) remain unbraked. Recovering a laden 8 wheeler is problematic as in most cases it will weigh more than the recovery vehicle and in usually has no means of readily being plumbed into its brake system.

 

I also seem to remember that an unladen artic is classed as one trailer but two if it is laden so needing a locomotive to recover.

Edited March 26, 2010 by radiomike7

[antarmike]

Usual way to recover an artic with lift and tow is to plumb in to the trailer air ports which at least gives trailer brakes operated from the recovery vehicle although the tractor rear axle(s) remain unbraked. Recovering a laden 8 wheeler is problematic as in most cases it will weigh more than the recovery vehicle and in usually has no means of readily being plumbed into its brake system.

 

I also seem to remember that an unladen artic is classed as one trailer but two if it is laden so needing a locomotive to recover.

 

But as we all know, when you have a casualty stuck out across the road, the Police turn a blind eye to everything.

As I said elsewhere, when I lost the Clutch on the Antar, on the A34, I was eventually towed off by a recovery firm, using my rigid bar. The recovery truck was plated for 65 tonnes gross, but my combinination was grossing 68 toness+ he must have been 15-20 Tonnes. I had two trailers behind the Antar, so he was towing three, and our overall length was over 122 feet. (And remember a locomotive can only tow three trailers if all three trailers are under 7m long, including drawbar)

 

My Antar does not have standard Military air connectors on the front (which use a signal from the recovery vehicle., to apply the casulaties brakes.)

 

Instead my couplings feed forward, so I can nose a trailer, or act as a rear end pusher tractor. He could therefore not automatically apply my brakes. Luckily Antar engine ran so I kept it running, making air, and I braked when I saw his lights come on, or I felt we were going a bit fast (at that gross weight, that wasn't very often)

 

The Police were kind enough to escort us all the way to thier yard (25 Milkes) to break it down into smaller loads.

Edited March 27, 2010 by antarmike

[cosrec]

Sorry i cant find anything that states a bdv stays a Bdv when being towed conversly i cant think of anywhere it states it becomes a trailer. I am sure if a BDV automaticaly becomes a trailer then they would have drafted in some wording in to allow someone to steer and brake it as we know it is illegal to ride in a trailer.

 

Even to the point that the law clarifies that a car carried on a transporter dolly is one trailer, not two, and the law sees a car running with one pair of wheels on a dolly and one pair running on the road is to be viewed as a single trailer

 

In this example the dolly is the trailer and when loaded the vehicle becomes part of it , this was put in to allow small vehicles to tow dollies. but as you state it says viewed as not classed as

[ruxy]

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/info-trailers.pdf

 

Refer to Sections 4 & 5

 

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http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/factsheetaframes.pdf

 

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http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/requirementsfortrailers

 

There is in fact a updated version of this, presented in a similar format Fact Sheet - Requirements for Trailers (dated January 2010).

 

Unable to find a online link to it , probably because it is such a new publication. Most of the changes relate to Brakes, Lights, Suspension + Coupling devices (Towbars).

 

 

 

Contact the D of T & they will send you a pdf

[cosrec]

Towing implements are a device constructed and used for the special purpose of vehicle recovery. In recognition of this, regulation 4(4), item 7 in the table, and regulation 4(5) of C&U provide exceptions for such devices from the full requirements of C&U. These exceptions allow the device to be constructed and used in such a way that enables the recovery of broken down vehicles.

 

Frankly i am more confused now than before i read this thread and i have lived and worked in this industry all my life. from what i read the above reads for dollys and any vehicle that has a capacity to lift and tow specificaly bdvs not trailors.

 

 

[antarmike]

Sorry i cant find anything that states a bdv stays a Bdv when being towed conversly i cant think of anywhere it states it becomes a trailer.

 

Construction 'n Use Regs 90

 

Passengers in Trailers,

 

No Person shall cause or permit to be used on the road Any trailer for the carraige of passengers for hire or reward except a wheeled trailer which is, or is carrying,a broken down motor vehicle if (a) not exceeding 30mph and (b) if the trailer is, or is carrying, a broken down bus that is attached by a rigid towbar (Reg90(1))

 

Which is saying Broken down vehicles, either being towed on a trailer, or running on their own wheels on the road are regarded as trailers.

Edited March 28, 2010 by antarmike

[Grumpy]

Recovering a laden 8 wheeler is problematic

 

.

 

The main problem recovering a laden 8 legger is down to axle weights of the front axle. Normally on the road, the weight of the front end of the vehicle is shared between the two front axles. When you try and pick up with a suspended tow, the weight of the front end (minus a bit, but not much) is placed upon just the front axle, usually putting it grossly over its rating.

[antarmike]

I also seem to remember that an unladen artic is classed as one trailer but two if it is laden so needing a locomotive to recover.

Correct Construction and Use Reg 83

says a broken down unladen articulated vehicle will be counted as only one trailer.

[radiomike7]

The main problem recovering a laden 8 legger is down to axle weights of the front axle. Normally on the road, the weight of the front end of the vehicle is shared between the two front axles. When you try and pick up with a suspended tow, the weight of the front end (minus a bit, but not much) is placed upon just the front axle, usually putting it grossly over its rating.

 

 

I believe the usual method is to raise the leading axle just clear of the road allowing the trailing front axle to support 5 tons or so. Care must be taken as it is possible to bend the chassis by attempting to take the entire weight under the leading axle, especially if the load has shifted forwards in an impact.