question Towing a casualty

[Mk3iain]

This may have been covered before, but with all the talk over the MOT exemptions, c&u regs etc

I was thinking of how I would stand if I were to give a vehicle a tow. Such as a freind in need or a roadside emergency, were I just to give someone a tow home as you may with a car! or if I am at a show with a freind and his Pioneer and he needs a tow home!

I know a car towing another car properly with lights etc the casualty is classed as a trailer and the relevant rules apply. Is this the same with a truck? My truck is a wrecker and is taxed as historic.

 

Iain

[antarmike]

I think you are okay to tow, but be aware that when someone is recovering a vehicle (as a commercial operator of a vehicle registered as Road Recovery) they are only allowed to tow it the shortest distance to get the casualty to a safe place, or the nearest place where it can be repaired. If you have a chosen garage where you want it repaired, and there happens to be one nearer that could do the work, then you have to take it to the nearest, not the one of your choice.

 

Likewise, according to the law, a vehicle, taxed as recovery cannot legally tow a casualty all the way to the owners home, if there is a nearer place of safety, or a place where it can be repaired nearer than the persons home.

 

Once recovered to a place of safety or the closest place where it can be repaired, if it is decided to take it to the persons home, it cannot legally be done on a recovery road tax, the car needs to be put on a trailer and towed by a vehicle taxed PLG PHGV whatever, or put Beaver tail vehicle with similar tax disc.

 

This rule is largely flouted by most recovery operators, including the two major motorists assistance organisations.

 

I am not aware if the same, minimum distance, to get to a safe place or place where it can be repaired rule applies to a private vehicle recovering another, but I rather feel it does.

 

Light blue touch paper and retire immediately......

Edited March 23, 2010 by antarmike

[Mk3iain]

Thanks Mike

I was thinking along the lines of. As it is a historic vehicle I can tow an unladen trailer! if another vehicle towed correctly is classed as a trailer I should be OK. All based on towing "correctly" and if I am right about it being classed as trailer. A lot of ifs

 

Iain

[rbrtcrowther]

i often see my local recovery man towing Buses and large HGV's with straight bars and on suspended tow with his Foden and militant and i know they are going back to their depot or if badly accident damaged back to his yard many miles away. Sometimes the front wheels lift off the ground with a big truck on the back:shocked: He is the north wales police main heavy recovery man and they don't seem to mind at all. Think they are usually glad to see the back of an overturned lorry ect.

[antarmike]

We all know it happens, and yes Police turn a blind eye, just giving what I believe to be the lowdown, and I leave it to others to choose what they do.

 

I just want people to be aware what questions COULD be asked if something went wrong, and you had towed a casualty 70 miles, when you could have towed it 7.

[antarmike]

.... if I am at a show with a freind and his Pioneer and he needs a tow home!

 

 

Iain

Thinking abouit this a bit further,

If he has actually broken down at the show, then he already is in a place of safety, and should be repaired there or taken by loader, with all his wheels of the road, to wherever he is going.

 

Towing a broken down vehicle, by a recovery truck, is only to get it off the road, where it has broken down and is causing either danger to other road users or an obstruction, to a safe place or the nearest place where a repair can be effected.

 

In these circumstances you should not consider towing him (in my opinion)

Edited March 23, 2010 by antarmike

[Mk3iain]

Mike,

I understand what you say for a vehicle registered/taxed as a recovery vehicle. But what about a private(historic) vehicle be it a wrecker or a GS truck or a bus, but used to tow another vehicle .

It is a situation many of us could find ourselves in and we should by trying to to "do the right thing".

 

Iain

[rbrtcrowther]

So when the local heavy recovery man turns up at the steam rally with his huge Foden with a Scammell Explorer hanging off the back and the police wind him up about the "broken " recovery truck on the back as he turns in the the field, he is actually breaking the law. :nut:

It's a simple life up here in the welsh hills. Drag 12 tons of scammell 20 miles to a show....wave at the coppers as you go by :wave::whistle: and watch the poor bikers get pulled up for a noisy egg n sauce..... bonkers:rolleyes:

[N.O.S.]

Do you have a link to the relevent Regulations, Mike?

 

It seems a little strange that a haulage company operating its own recovery vehicle would be obliged to recover its own disabled truck to the nearest commercial vehicle repair business rather than its own workshops. :shocked:

 

And what about recovery from abroad - are they all supposed to dump the trucks at the nearest repair company to the port/tunnel? What a business opportunity for someone with a seaside shed and spanners! :-D

 

Or are the Regulations governing the use of commercial recovery vehicles, which the above scenarios envisage, perhaps a little different to the Regulations covering simple emergency towing by vehicles other than those taxed as Recovery Vehicles? :-)

Edited March 23, 2010 by N.O.S.

[antarmike]

Do you have a link to the relevent Regulations, Mike?

 

It seems a little strange that a haulage company operating its own recovery vehicle would be obliged to recover its own disabled truck to the nearest commercial vehicle repair business rather than its own workshops. :shocked:

 

And what about recovery from abroad - are they all supposed to dump the trucks at the nearest repair company to the port/tunnel? What a business opportunity for someone with a seaside shed and spanners! :-D

 

Or are the Regulations governing the use of commercial recovery vehicles, which the above scenarios envisage, perhaps a little different to the Regulations covering simple emergency towing by vehicles other than those taxed as Recovery Vehicles? :-)

Yes,but I am re-assesing what I said. Re reading it seems to say section 7 subsections 1 and 2 ,if you tow it or carry it (I presume allwhells of the road) you can take it to the customers stated destination, unless you are towing on a drawbar, or on lift-and -tow (presumably lift-and-tow means spectacle lift, underlift, crane and chains with steadying A frame, still trying to work out what towing on a drawbar means, and how it differs from what they simply call towing)

 

Quoting from Special types (generalorder) CONDITIONS RELATING TO USE

 

 

Restriction on carriage of loads and towing of vehicles

 

5. - (1) A road recovery vehicle must not carry or tow any load or transport any goods or burden.

 

(2) But that is subject to paragraphs 6 and 7.

 

6. A road recovery vehicle may carry its own necessary gear and equipment.

 

7. - (1) Except as stated in sub-paragraph (2), a road recovery vehicle may carry or tow a disabled vehicle or vehicle-combination when conveying it to a destination in accordance with the instructions of the owner or driver of the vehicle or when conveying it to an appropriate destination for repair.

 

(2) Where a recovery of a disabled vehicle or vehicle-combination is effected by using a drawbar or lift-and-tow method, the road recovery vehicle must not carry or tow the disabled vehicle or vehicle-combination any further than is reasonably necessary in order to clear any road obstructed by it and to facilitate the use of roads by other persons.

 

8. - (1) At any time when a disabled vehicle or vehicle-combination is being towed by a road recovery vehicle, the braking system of the disabled vehicle or vehicle-combination must not be operated by any device other than an approved brake connection point that is fitted to both the road recovery vehicle and the disabled vehicle or vehicle-combination.

 

(2) In sub-paragraph (1), "approved brake connection point", in relation to a road recovery vehicle, means a device which is -

 

 

(a) approved by the manufacturer of the vehicle;

 

(b) fitted to the vehicle in the course of its construction or adaptation; and

 

© specially designed for use in the course of recovering disabled vehicles or vehicle-combinations in order to provide a means by which the braking system of the disabled vehicle or vehicle-combination can be safely and effectively controlled from the road recovery vehicle.

 

 

9. A road recovery vehicle must not tow a disabled vehicle or vehicle-combination if the weight of the road recovery vehicle, together with the weight of the vehicle or vehicles being towed, would exceed the maximum train weight shown on the plate required to be fitted to the road recovery vehicle by regulation 66 of the Construction and Use Regulations (plates for goods vehicles and buses).

[LoggyDriver]

I don't know what the rules are regarding this, but my tractor unit broke down at Frankley Services when I worked at a company based in Thatcham, Berks. This company is an International food and distribution company that is Union run and obays every letter of the law.

 

I called the workshops and they sent the company wrecker (ERF) out to recover my broken tractor. The wrecker towed ANOTHER good tractor unit out with him to Frankley services. We swapped units and I hooked up the good one to the trailer and the fitter hooked up the dead unit to the wrecker and we drove the 3hrs back to Thatcham.

 

I've also had a tractor and trailer suspended tow from Bicester to Didcot after a Portugese artic hit me up the rear end at 56mph when I was stationary, the wrecker had plenty of nearer "safe places" to stop at, but he took us straight back to the yard.

 

The Police will use common sense, they aren't the problem, it's VOSA you would have to watch out for. If what Antar says is the law then I'm not surprised it's totally ignored, by operators and the Police. What a jack ass law indeed.

 

I got pulled by VOSA last year for forgetting to put the number plate on my trailer. The guy went into this lecture about trying to avoid speed cameras etc and then hit me with a £30 fine. Then he said I could continue on my journey (WTF)??? I gets to the Oxford ring road and had a Traffic Police car right behind me for about two miles and he didn't even bat an eyelid.

 

As long as you secure the stranded vehicle as it should be, with a light board and amber warning lights then you haven't got anything to worry about.

Edited March 23, 2010 by LoggyDriver

[antarmike]

I might be wrong, i don't know, we had a thread about this a while ago, but now we can'y (or at least I can't) do a serch and end up with the actual post rather than the thread it is in, I can't find it.

 

The vehicle excise duty regs do allow a recovery vehicle to move a casualty from where it was first taken for repair, to another location where it can be repaired or scrapped, so maybe I am wrong, but it seems yet again there is a disparity between C and U regs, and Excise duty regs, which to my eyes do not seem to be singing from the same songsheet, (yet again)

 

I am beginning to wish I hadn't tried to answer this query, but rather left it to someone else!

 

My head hurts....and I have a speckled hen wuith my name on it.....

[cosrec]

Hi you have got me perplexed with this statement where you got this from

 

as a commercial operator of a vehicle registered as Road Recovery) they are only allowed to tow it the shortest distance to get the casualty to a safe place, or the nearest place where it can be repaired. If you have a chosen garage where you want it repaired, and there happens to be one nearer that could do the work, then you have to take it to the nearest, not the one of your choice.

 

Likewise, according to the law, a vehicle, taxed as recovery cannot legally tow a casualty all the way to the owners home, if there is a nearer place of safety, or a place where it can be repaired nearer than the persons home.

 

I think you are getting mixed up with rare occasions when axle wieghts length limits are exceeded

 

Some other food for thought . As far as i am aware you only need a licence for the vehicle you are driving not the one you are towing.

 

A broken down vehicle is still a broken down vehicle when been towed NOT A TRAILER. (unless it was a trailer to start with)

 

My reasoning for the above 2 statements is when my eldest son was 17 he answered a call for an overturned artic MT fridge on a B road not far from our base. Everbody else being out he attended with our Leyland Martian recovered the vehicle and suspend towed the vehicle back to our base. He was duly reported to the police. Interviews where conducted and various pionts put forward photos taken and consultaion with police lawyer 3 months later after numerous more interviews it was decided the matter should go to the CPS. 1 year later we got notification that no further action would be taken as no offence had been commited. This was 13 years ago and things may have changed since

 

May have stirred up some already muddy waters

Edited March 24, 2010 by cosrec
missed a bit

[antarmike]

Construction and Use reg 86 gives the maximum length of rope or chain that can be used to tow a trailer.

 

I can only assume that the "trailer" referred to is a broken down vehicle, since unless it can be steered or braked, how can you use a rope to legally tow a trailer?

 

Reg 84 does not allow a two wheel motor cycle 250cc or under is not allowed to tow any trailer unless it is a broken down motorbike being ridden.

So clearly at times at least a brokendown vehicle is regarded as a trailer.

Edited March 27, 2010 by antarmike

[antarmike]

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_10013073

The following is quoted from the Direct.gov website.

 

Whilst not directly related to the question in hand, perhaps this is getting in the way of my thinking.

 

Qoute, "An exemption from the driver licensing trailer limit allows a category B licence holder to tow a broken down vehicle from a position where it would otherwise cause danger or obstruction to other road users."

 

ie only allows driver with a car licence, to pull another vehicle the shortest possible distance. A car driver with B licence with weight limit on trailer they can tow, can only recover a car the shortest practical distance.

 

Re a towed broken down vehicle being a trailer, it clearly is.

[ArtistsRifles]

Veering off-topic a bit - the mobile VOSA operatives appear to be gaining a reputation for being "incompetent mini-hitlers" (the words of one the few remaining serving traffic police officers - not mine)

 

Year before last my wife and I were returning from a caravan rally on the M4. Outfit was a 2.5m Swedish Cabby twin axle pulled by a Ford F-250. In the Leigh Delamere services we cane back from getting coffee and burgers to find a VOSA vehicle pulled up behind us and the operative running a tape measure over the caravan/ On returning to the F-250 the operative marched - I kid you not - up to us and demanded to know if we were aware of the laws on towing, Having replied in the affirmative I was subjected to a highly abusive lecture on towing over width caravans that ended in a demand for the caravan to be unhitched and left until a legal towing vehicle could be contracted to recover it. I refused politely and was told if I did not comply the police would be summoned. Having invited him to do his worst we retired into the van to eat our lunch.

After about 45 minutes the police car arrived and the officers got collared by the VOSA guy and given the lecture I'd had and then came to talk to me. Asked me the same questions about knowing the law that the VOSA guy did and then asked why I refused to comply - so I opened the drivers door of the F-250 pointed to the data plate and said the law requires that anything 2.5m wide be towed by a vehicle with a plated weight greater than 3501 Kg. The plate on the F-250 read 3599 Kg hence I was within the law. Police officer asked why we never told the VOSA guy this so I replied he never gave us the chance, just went from demanding we unhitch to threatening us with them - office burst out laughing and told us to resume our journey - as we pulled out the pair of them were tearing strips off the VOSA guy.

[AndyFowler]

Veering off-topic a bit - the mobile VOSA operatives appear to be gaining a reputation for being "incompetent mini-hitlers" (the words of one the few remaining serving traffic police officers - not mine)

 

Year before last my wife and I were returning from a caravan rally on the M4. Outfit was a 2.5m Swedish Cabby twin axle pulled by a Ford F-250. In the Leigh Delamere services we cane back from getting coffee and burgers to find a VOSA vehicle pulled up behind us and the operative running a tape measure over the caravan/ On returning to the F-250 the operative marched - I kid you not - up to us and demanded to know if we were aware of the laws on towing, Having replied in the affirmative I was subjected to a highly abusive lecture on towing over width caravans that ended in a demand for the caravan to be unhitched and left until a legal towing vehicle could be contracted to recover it. I refused politely and was told if I did not comply the police would be summoned. Having invited him to do his worst we retired into the van to eat our lunch.

After about 45 minutes the police car arrived and the officers got collared by the VOSA guy and given the lecture I'd had and then came to talk to me. Asked me the same questions about knowing the law that the VOSA guy did and then asked why I refused to comply - so I opened the drivers door of the F-250 pointed to the data plate and said the law requires that anything 2.5m wide be towed by a vehicle with a plated weight greater than 3501 Kg. The plate on the F-250 read 3599 Kg hence I was within the law. Police officer asked why we never told the VOSA guy this so I replied he never gave us the chance, just went from demanding we unhitch to threatening us with them - office burst out laughing and told us to resume our journey - as we pulled out the pair of them were tearing strips off the VOSA guy.

 

A very "satisfying" story Neil , had my first run in with VOSA last week , took great pleasure in telling me everything I had been doing wrong:blush: and then let me go so they are not all bad ! As some one once said "Ze are only following orders":-D

[Grumpy]

I might be wrong, i don't know, we had a thread about this a while ago, but now we can'y (or at least I can't) do a serch and end up with the actual post rather than the thread it is in, I can't find it.

 

The vehicle excise duty regs do allow a recovery vehicle to move a casualty from where it was first taken for repair, to another location where it can be repaired or scrapped, so maybe I am wrong, but it seems yet again there is a disparity between C and U regs, and Excise duty regs, which to my eyes do not seem to be singing from the same songsheet, (yet again)

 

I am beginning to wish I hadn't tried to answer this query, but rather left it to someone else!

 

My head hurts....and I have a speckled hen wuith my name on it.....

 

Mike, a recovery vehicle can be used to take another vehicle to a place of repair / scrapped, but the rules still apply to the suspend / straight bar tow regarding reasonable distance. If the place of repair is not within a reasonable distance you have to trailer it or use a transporter. VOSA are still getting their knickers in a twist regarding beavertails etc. saying they must be MOTed, which they don’t if used solely for recovery purposes and that includes taking to a place of repair. The grey area is transporting to someone’s home, can this be a place of repair?

[Mk3iain]

This really is getting complicated! Huge thanks for time and effort.

I have been searching around for info as I have this nagging memory about towed cars being trailers under certain circumstances.

Best I can gather so far is that a second vehicle(not necessarily a casualty) on a drawbar to be classed as a trailer, has to comply under EU C&U regs, ie brakes, lights, MAM etc like any other trailer. ie cars being pulled behind motor homes etc. But I have been looking with private vehicles in mind not commercial vehicles limited by taxation class.

 

SORRY

Iain

[gritineye]

Police officer asked why we never told the VOSA guy this so I replied he never gave us the chance, just went from demanding we unhitch to threatening us with them - office burst out laughing and told us to resume our journey - as we pulled out the pair of them were tearing strips off the VOSA guy.

 

Great to think they will most likely have gleefully logged this incident as well, :cool2: nice one Neil.

[utt61]

<snip> Best I can gather so far is that a second vehicle(not necessarily a casualty) on a drawbar to be classed as a trailer, has to comply under EU C&U regs, ie brakes, lights, MAM etc like any other trailer. ie cars being pulled behind motor homes etc. <snip>

 

FWIW this is my understanding too. Clearly it is no longer possible for a car on an 'A'-frame or rigid drawbar to conform to the latest trailer regs (auto-reverse brakes etc.) and therefore as far as I am aware it is no longer legal to do this in this country nor probably anywhere in Europe (even though it still happens, especially behind giant motor-homes).

 

Similarly, I believe that it is no longer legal to use the traditional Harvey Frost "towboy" type recovery unit or any other form of towing dolly to move vehicles on the road (a fact conveniently 'forgotten' by those people who sell them on ebay nowadays). This is once again mainly due to the braking arrangements being non-compliant.

 

If you tow a broken down vehicle using a rope, chain, or rigid bar then it is not a trailer, it is still a motor vehicle, and it is my understanding that you are only allowed to do this for the minimum possible distance that removes the hazard from the place of breakdown. So, you can tow a car on a rope to the next lay-by but not to the next garage if there is a lay-by nearer than the garage. (You must also conform to the limit on length of rope, requirements for markers on the rope, an "ON TOW" sign, and the towing vehicle numberplate displayed on the rear of the towed vehicle). There must be a licensed and insured person steering and braking the casualty. Under many circumstances even this will now be impossible, since the casualty must be roadworthy; if, for example, it relies upon a brake servo to achieve the necessary brake efficiency and the engine won't run, or if the wipers or lights don't work, etc etc, it would not be legal to tow it on its own wheels at all.

 

An 'A'-frame recovery I believe does make the casualty a trailer, and could only possibly be legal if there was an arrangement to apply the brakes on the casualty (unless the casualty weights under 750kgs). For an air-braked vehicle this could be done with suzys but for a light vehicle it is very difficult. A further problem is the fact that an 'A'-framed vehicle cannot be reversed. It is almost certainly illegal for there to be anyone in the casualty (as far as I know the only case where people can be carried in a trailer is in the back half of a bendy-bus*). Best advice is probably not to use an 'A'-frame.

 

The law now is skewed towards allowing (just) the emergency removal of a casualty to the nearest safe place only; any further movement should be undertaken on a trailer or recovery vehicle.

 

* I can clearly remember when bendy-buses were first trialled in the UK, in Oxford. The law prevented anyone from being carried in the back half - the trailer - so the buses were limited to carrying about the same number of passengers as a large minibus. Bonkers!

[radiomike7]

The large blue chip company I work for run a fleet of 80 ageing DAF CF85 artic tractors of which at least 2 break down with major issues most weeks. We have a contract with a large well known recovery company who are quite happy to suspend tow an artic however far and to whatever destination we want, completely flouting current legislation. To the best of my knowledge there have never been any prosecutions.

[antarmike]

http://www.gordonwalkermotors.co.uk/id4.html

[Mk3iain]

Yes Mike, but that applies to vehicles used commercially and taxed as recovery vehicles restricted by C&U and taxation class. My own point is about private and historic registered vehicles being used to move another vehicle. Most of us do it from time to time.....

Iain

[Grumpy]

The large blue chip company I work for run a fleet of 80 ageing DAF CF85 artic tractors of which at least 2 break down with major issues most weeks. We have a contract with a large well known recovery company who are quite happy to suspend tow an artic however far and to whatever destination we want, completely flouting current legislation. To the best of my knowledge there have never been any prosecutions.

 

Yes but don’t tell everyone, this forum has already been quoted in various correspondents between VOSA and organisations trying to keep our hobby viable. :nono: