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Rover8FFR

Have British Army Vehicles always had the engines and ancills painted turquoise?

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A question for the more knowledgeable than I on British Military Vehicles.

 

My 1963 ser2a 24v 88" FFR Land Rover has an engine that is painted in a very pale grey / blue tint colour (almost grey) and has the remnance of some stenciled numbers in white on the side of the engine block (manifold side).

 

The 40amp Generator and screened dizzy are in a satin/ gloss black paint finish and after a little rubbing back this appears to the original base / top coat to these parts.

 

I see many vehicles at shows where the engine, dizzy and generator all all painted in the turquoise engine paint. I have seen this on a few Austin Champs, which pre-date my land rovers vintage!

 

The engine appears totally genuine as well as the ancillaries, but I wondered as and when the REME painted engines and ancills.

 

Any steers would be gratefully appreciated.

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Eu-de-nil was the colour used on rebuilt engines and transmissions by the British Army. This colour was being used soon after the war if not during and before. My Sherman engine had traces of it. It is a grey-green colour, BS 216.

 

It is not the current colour, that is the pale blue you mention but it too is used on rebuilt assemblies. Normally everything is painted includind ancilleries so maybe your parts were fitted as sub assemblies.

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isnt the new blue, duck egg blue?

 

I always thought that was interesting as never seen a blue egg, except for tin foil wrapped ones the Easter bunny leaves

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Interesting!

 

I know the landy was built at Solihull and then sent to CVD Hilton for finishing.

 

I know that the Rover 8 & 9's were the first true band of military landrovers that were developed with a lot of the specialist parts physically fitted on the production line in Birmingham.

 

Previously the REME would have taken a standard series 1 or 2 and adapted it from what was a domestic landrover.

 

Looking at some of the holes drilled through body parts/ panels the install at CVD would I am sure have been regarding the radios install and ancillaries, cables etc.

 

The very pale golour on the engine is very pale indeed, but really grey with a hint of????. It may be that the generator and dizzy pack were fitted at CVD, but would they not have been the turquoise colour?

 

I believed that the gen and dizzy pack were fitted to the landy on the production line at Solihull.

Edited by Rover8FFR
adding photo

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I had a chicken that laid blue eggs, She was blue also.

 

Is it off topic to ask where to get those mushrooms from?

 

Anyway Clive will come in soon as I read his paint book and he will tell me its quail egg or something

 

- plus where to get the mushrooms from

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I have a photo on PC of the gen pack with original black finish.

 

The rectifiers at the front are in standard black finish as per manufactured by CAV

Rover Mk 8 FFR 24v.JPG

front grille..jpg

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I have traces of what I believe to be BS216 Eau de Nil in the rear Tub, just behind the seats, which I don't think was standard is this colour BS216 as the colour swatches on line are a little poor?

 

Thanks

battery tray 24v.

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The colour for most postwar engines is Sky Blue BSC381C 101. Although I suspect that many B Series engines & ancillaries were originally black. The original colour of engines when they came from Rover is a subject of much debate though.:-D

 

Yes I agree the CAV 40A system was black. I have the regulator on my lap at the moment. Whether that was by chance or for heat radiation purposes I don't know, but certainly important for the selinium rectifier to shed as much heat as possible as it would fail to function above 80 deg C, whereas silicon rectifiers can function at 200 deg C.

Edited by fv1609

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Your body panels inc. behind the seats would probably have been sprayed with this paintIMG_0891.jpg , subsequent coats would follow by brush. Like NATO IRR over several years it fades right down , behind your seat backs - use a bit of T cut to reveal.

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That's interesting on the Olive Drab debate internally!

 

I thought that the landrovers of the 60's were all deep bronze green, unless sent of to Aden etc? This gets even more complicated! Doh!

 

I guess I will take a picture of the engine block and see what Clive says about the colour. Much appreciated to Clive on confirmation that the CAV 40A system with rectifier was likely to have been black as installed.

 

I guess the later 90A systems on the series 3 with the rectifier inboard were where I see the more typical turqoise colour used on say preserved engines.

 

Seems a little odd though why they would be a standard black and painted the turqoise colour or Eau-de-Nil elsewhere. I thought the painting was to a army scale document?

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Clive Elliott

 

Always wanted old British Army publications of any period (the older the better) eg AC, ACI, COSA, CR, DCI, EMEC, EMEI, EMER, EMPL, EMPS, ER, LoC, LTI, MAOS, MRA, RAOS, REA, VAOS, WMTI, etc, Army & WO Coded publications..............

 

Clive I have a copy of what I believe is a very lengthy EMEI publication for many militart Land Rovers from Rover Mk 1,2,3 up to Rover 10 & 11??? I will check what it is tonight and get back to you. It may be a expensive document to copy as it runs to a few hundred pages, (sorry but hard copy) but includes many illustrations and parts numbers. Is this possibly of interest?

 

Regards :wow:

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Wayne quite a few matters in there.

 

I can find no document defining when OD superceded DBG. I think it was very much dependant on the vehicle, its role & how front line it was and many vehicles finished their days in DBG. The earliest photographic siting of OD with disruptive black is a Hornet in 1968. But that was very front line & for use even before the battle lines were drawn up!

 

I can tell you when IRR NATO Green came along & that is much later than many might think. It was 1980, I say that because in that year the Defence Standard for it was issued, it received a BSC381C allocation (285) & the Materiel Regulations introduced the use of it.

 

Most 90A generators (Generator No.10) are Sky Blue but very early ones were black. SB came with preservation & repair) however the matching Generator Panel No.9 remained black.

 

There were & are indeed Regulations for painting, particularly were preservation is concerned & this does not necessarily mean reconditioning. In EMER WORKSHOPS N 111 Chapters 1 & 2 for preservation of petrol engines and chapters 5 & 6 for vehicle assemblies & electrical assemblies.

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Clive I have a copy of what I believe is a very lengthy EMEI publication for many militart Land Rovers from Rover Mk 1,2,3 up to Rover 10 & 11??? I will check what it is tonight and get back to you. It may be a expensive document to copy as it runs to a few hundred pages, (sorry but hard copy) but includes many illustrations and parts numbers. Is this possibly of interest?

 

Wayne that would be of interest. But are you sure it is an EMEI as that should have the theatre of use in the title? I suspect what you have is EMER WHEELED VEHICLES Q 020- 029. That is certainly a big one but is what might best be described as a 'chaos' of information with great difficulty in defining what Rover they are taliking about. But it is certainly is a must have for a MV Rover person.

 

I suspect you have found it of use as it covers the 40A system quite well.

 

I do actually have a spare copy of about a third of it if you're interested.

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Wayne quite a few matters in there.

 

I can find no document defining when OD superceded DBG. I think it was very much dependant on the vehicle, its role & how front line it was and many vehicles finished their days in DBG. The earliest photographic siting of OD with disruptive black is a Hornet in 1968. But that was very front line & for use even before the battle lines were drawn up!

 

I can tell you when IRR NATO Green came along & that is much later than many might think. It was 1980, I say that because in that year the Defence Standard for it was issued, it received a BSC381C allocation (285) & the Materiel Regulations introduced the use of it.

 

Most 90A generators (Generator No.10) are Sky Blue but very early ones were black. SB came with preservation & repair) however the matching Generator Panel No.9 remained black.

 

There were & are indeed Regulations for painting, particularly were preservation is concerned & this does not necessarily mean reconditioning. In EMER WORKSHOPS N 111 Chapters 1 & 2 for preservation of petrol engines and chapters 5 & 6 for vehicle assemblies & electrical assemblies.

 

What a legend! I guessed the OD was too young for my 1963 Rover8FFR.

 

I guess over the years when these vehicles are de-mobbed they change beyond recognition over the years as mine had been painted cream over blue, with a hard top fitted. All the galvanised body cappings and windscreen had been over painted with silver paint. The whole thing looked very sorry and sad indeed!

 

It has been suggested that if I rub back my wings I may find some original markings as I have found nothing on the old girls military history at all. Although the original wings were butchered some time ago to fit lights in the wings. So any markings on the vertical faces may be well and truly lost.

 

I know the vehicle was sent from Solihull to CVD Hilton? (sp). Is there any way of seeing from their old records where the vehicle was first posted. I know Ashchurch is still thriving and wondered if they may have some historic documents. I guess Hilton is now a housing estate?

 

Kind regards

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Wayne if you join the EMLRA you can get a vehicle history search done I think for £5 or you can pay £25 & ask Deepcut to look in their records.

 

Shame your history got cut away, although heraldic & fancy unit markings were phased out from the end of 1977 on order of CRAOC to fit in with the "One Army" concept put forward in the Defence White Paper of 1975 to do away with the distiction between the Regular Army & TAVR.

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Wayne that would be of interest. But are you sure it is an EMEI as that should have the theatre of use in the title? I suspect what you have is EMER WHEELED VEHICLES Q 020- 029. That is certainly a big one but is what might best be described as a 'chaos' of information with great difficulty in defining what Rover they are taliking about. But it is certainly is a must have for a MV Rover person.

 

I suspect you have found it of use as it covers the 40A system quite well.

 

I do actually have a spare copy of about a third of it if you're interested.

 

Sorry Clive but trying to go from memory! It's a big doc as you say. I will double check tonight what is what and get back to you! i have the found the document very useful I must confess. I also have a servicing schedule document for same which is more compact. Again I will investigate and confirm what the docs and their references are.

 

Regards

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Wayne if you join the EMLRA you can get a vehicle history search done I think for £5 or you can pay £25 & ask Deepcut to look in their records.

 

Shame your history got cut away, although heraldic & fancy unit markings were phased out from the end of 1977 on order of CRAOC to fit in with the "One Army" concept put forward in the Defence White Paper of 1975 to do away with the distiction between the Regular Army & TAVR.

 

Vehicle was demobbed in 1972 so we may be lucky! Even if it starts another posting for help!

 

I am in the EMLR and sent to Deepcut and it all came back a big fat zero! So I guess nothings changed.

 

Somebody mentioned that EK's relate to particular years. Do you know of an inventory where the batches of EK's went. I guess this all goes back to the old records held at Deepcut??????

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Wayne sorry that you have explored those avenues already to no avail.

 

What is its EK reg?

 

I might be able to tell you when it went into service & when it was sold, the sale & lot no & even the price paid but it might take a little while to search the sales catalogues. But I have nothing on the years in between!

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EK - nominally is 62/63

 

Civilian 2A started Sept. 1961 , seems as if the change from Rover 6 to 8 contracts was lagging a bit.

 

All the TA Land Rovers I knew of were in DBG until 1971 when I came across a brand new Rover 1 (2A Lightweight) that had been sprayed in OD.

 

Clive is correct about the date of introduction of NATO IRR , I purchased a Lightweight about Easter 1980 from Ruddington - it had a damaged front wing and the paint was splattered. On examining bits of the paint I realized it was something different , contacted Dufay Titaine and was supplied with the spec. sheets - that was when I became aware of IRR paint.

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EK - nominally is 62/63

 

Civilian 2A started Sept. 1961 , seems as if the change from Rover 6 to 8 contracts was lagging a bit.

 

All the TA Land Rovers I knew of were in DBG until 1971 when I came across a brand new Rover 1 (2A Lightweight) that had been sprayed in OD.

 

Clive is correct about the date of introduction of NATO IRR , I purchased a Lightweight about Easter 1980 from Ruddington - it had a damaged front wing and the paint was splattered. On examining bits of the paint I realized it was something different , contacted Dufay Titaine and was supplied with the spec. sheets - that was when I became aware of IRR paint.

 

Reg is 57 EK 34. Order book at LR was December 1963 and was then delivered to CVD Hilton in January 1964. I know it came in 72 as its civi reg plate was a K reg. :undecided:

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Reg is 57 EK 34. Order book at LR was December 1963 and was then delivered to CVD Hilton in January 1964. I know it came in 72 as its civi reg plate was a K reg. :undecided:

 

57 EK 34 went out of service in July 1971

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It was sold at Ruddington OSDD on 28/7/71 on the first day of the sale Lot No.356 of 700 lots that day. The neighbouring lots were:

 

355 64 EK 40

357 89 EL 19

358 54 DM 03

 

They were all 88in IIA. Sorry no idea of price.

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My 1963 ser2a 24v 88" FFR Land Rover has an engine that is painted in a very pale grey / blue tint colour (almost grey) and has the remnance of some stenciled numbers in white on the side of the engine block (manifold side).

 

 

 

Hi Wayne,

 

When the Land Rovers were new from the factory, the cylinder block, timing cover, water pump and head, were painted a pale blue/grey. Possibly as you describe. This was not an overall spray after assembly. The rocker cover and flywheel housing was bare alloy finish and I think the sump was gloss black. I rebuilt loads of 2.25 engines, both 2a and 3 series, in REME workshops and once they were tested, they were painted completely in Sky Blue, except distributors which were a dull black.

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Reg is 57 EK 34. Order book at LR was December 1963 and was then delivered to CVD Hilton in January 1964. I know it came in 72 as its civi reg plate was a K reg. :undecided:

 

Under the old rules - it would get a suffix K (01/8/71 to 31/7/72) as if it were a new vehicle . These rules changed about 1983 when Q reg. was introduced , If you could prove date of manufacture - then you get that datable registration , otherwise you get a Q.

 

Are you able to give details of such as the Contract or NSN , if you don't wish to state your chassis No. on the internet - just use two or 3 "x" in the middle of the number (the start / finish are important).

With this info. - there are a few people who can give you a bit of addl. info.

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