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griff66

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More likely RG 85 meaning Radway Green 1985. Without a pic or dimensions it's a bit hard to be honest!

 

I googled and found this:

 

Thanks mate, that was the part I could not remember!

 

All British made Radwell Green (RG on the base of round) L2A2 5.56mm Ball

has been made to the NATO SS109 standard since 1985

As is most Belgium (FN) German (DAG) 5.56mm you may be issued with in the UK

 

Here:

 

http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=35433/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=60.html

 

About 2/3 of the way down. Luckily the apparent typo (references to both Radway Green and Radwell Green) didn't get in the way.

 

Obviously not a definitive answer.

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right have now fount two different calibre rounds in ferret largest one has rg85 on base case is 51mm long neck of case is7.8 mm internal so i guess its either a 30 cal or a 7.62 mm ? second one looks like a blank as end where round would be is crimped has rg90 on base and LIAI ,55 mm long o.d of neck is 6.5 mm any ideas?

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griff66

so a sa 80 for the smaller one? and for larger one was bren, 30 browning and gpmg all possible for the 7.62mm ?

 

 

As far as the smaller L1A1 5.56mm cartridge the SA80 and its derivatives are correct.

 

The 7.62 x 51 also known as 7.62mm nato and .308 Wincester(U.S. Commercial designation) was used in SLRs and Envoy rifles. Bren Light machine gun conversions L4A1, L4A2, L4A3, L4A4, L4A5, L4A6, L4A9 and all GPMG derivatives.

The Browning M1919A4 designated L3A1, L3A2, L3A3, L3A4 were chambered for 30-06 that is a U.S. 30cal x 63 cartridge this is totally different from the 7.62 x 51 cartridge And although Canada,Australia and Israel to name just 3 nations converted their M1919A4-A5 to 7.62 x 51 cartridge Britain retained the original cartridge, probably due to large existing stocks.

 

I had a rummage around for some cartridges and pictured are L1A1 Blank and 7.62 Nato

when describing a cartridge always in addition to a photo and whether it is rimmed rimless or semi rimmed, give a length from base to mouth and an approximate mouth diameter -approximate is just that, for example 7.62mm russian is actually .311in (7.89mm) the same as the British .303in.

A good starting reference for cartridges is www.quarry.nildram.co.uk.

cartridge cases..JPG

Edited by steveo578
correction in italics
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I 've never seen a De-ac 7.62m Bren most De-ac are Mk1 (with the drum site) and a few early British Mk2 and these were not converted to 7.62.

 

The 7.62mm Bren was based on Long Branch models (Canada). Long Branch production was modified to 1) simplify 2) facilitate use of an interchangable breach block for Brens in 7.92mm X 57 mainly for China and a few 30 06 (30cal x 63mm). In the Chinese and US calibre guns the breach block was modified to extract rimless cases - a back mod as ZB 26-30s were chambered for 7.92 x 57. In the end most Brens made were from Canada.

 

Some Brens are supposed to have been modified to use the 7 x 43 round which briefly replaced the .303 in 1950- and then to 7.62mm x 51 so if there are any L4 pattern De-acs out there they may have novel proof marks showing 3 calibres- 303, 7 x 43 and 7.62 x 52.

 

I don't know of any SA80 as De-acs as it is still an in service weapon it is unlikely- although there were some SA80 available in Canada as movie props.

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Probably one of the most useful sites to aid ID of found cartridges is stevespages.com/ nothing to do with me :-D, it has probably every cartridge of production weapons since about 1880. shows drawings of cartridges with accurate measurements. For example the three types mentioned in this thread US 30-06 .308 7.62 nato and 556mm Nato. note the difference in taper of the 30-06 and .308 -this gave problems when rechambering weapons, there were convertors for M1 rifles to 7.62mm comprising a chamber liner -but it didn't work well -often being ejected with a spent cartridge.

 

Steve

cd3006..jpg

cd308winchester..jpg

cd556nato..jpg

Edited by steveo578
addition
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Sa 80 a good air spring single shot plastic BB one will cost about £50. Looks and feels , well , better built than the L85A1. Brens. The Ferret was in service so long you'd get away with a .303 Bren. The only real obvious visual diffrence between a .303 and 7.62 Bren was the .303 has a curved mag the 7.62 a straight.

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In addition L4s have a revised flash eliminator similar to the SLR otherwise they are Mk3 build standard.

 

With regard to the mount for the Bren on the Ferret perhaps there are some in the stock recently mentioned in Scrap Yard Relics thread.

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Griff as you have already worked out a 303 deac Bren is realistically the only weapon you will be able to purchase in the UK without spending over £2,000 on a deac GPMG or SA80. I think I have only ever heard of one deac LMG yet alone seen one in the flesh, asides from the straigh mag (which could be bodged to fit) the flash suppressor is a big visual difference from the Bren and could not be changed on a deac as that wiould be interfering with the deactivation so illegal. Ferretfixer once said LMG have been retained in war reserve so not released for anyone to deac anyway.

 

at the risk of opening a new line on the originality arguement, many people get away with deac 303 Brens on what is, in all other respects, a later equipped Ferret

 

the BB SA80, or a wooden/metal dummy GPMG are very good visually and therefore of course absolutely subject to the VCR Act, so is a definite risk if in your vehicle

Edited by john fox
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As an alternative to the silly prices here (!) it might be feasible to import a live SA-80 from the States and deac it here - they sold a fair few semi-auto variants out there to target shooters. Worth a try if you're going over on holiday, maybe?

 

Stone

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