Gulf War 1 (Operation Granby)

[Ian Dunn]

has anyone got any photos of Gulf War 1... that show webbing and uniforms

i am doing the old landy up for G W 1 (Op Granby) i know it is very mixed up but i would like more info

What webbing was used(along side 58 pattern)

 

can you help?

 

Ian

[robin craig]

Bob Morrison"s book Land Rovers in the Gulf shows related kit as used, well worth the pennies for it.

 

R

[Ian Dunn]

I already have the book

It does not show enough of webbing etc

 

Ian

[Jonny666]

webbing would have been 80 pattern OD PLCE painted in nato light stone paint (roughly) back line regiments such as engineers and artillery would have used 58 more so.

 

the old type desert camo was 4 colour but its rare to find but the newer 2 colour stuff is fine, i have my landy in the sand a green camo used in the gulf in 1994 on operation safe heaven but sand and green also featured on some other units landys in 91.

 

i will try and help you with anything else i can

[Enigma]

I already have the book

It does not show enough of webbing etc

 

Ian

 

Gulf war 1 was Iran-Iraq in the 80's.

Back then it was called the Persian gulf war or just the Gulf war amongst other names...

We in the west seem to have forgotten that and say Gulf War 1 was in 1991 because the West was fighting in that one.

[morris c8 fat]

Yep Artillery Enginers ect all in 58 kit and SLR/SMGs and green kit DPMs for the first month or soI suppose we were lucky to have helmets and S12 resperators

[sas pinkie]

Three colour Camo was not issued for this, the only stuff in use was there because some old hat had held on to it when first issued, the reason why? The British felt they would never be going to war in a desert enviroment, certainly not against the Iraqi's so had sold them a large number of three colour desert camo. Suddenly Iraq did somthing stupid, and the brits found we had to go to war, on short notice, with a desert camo that matched our enemies..... not good, so at incredibly short notice, the now common two colour camo was rushed out. At the start of the campaign it was in very short supply so only front line troops got all of it, but it did eventually filter through. A freind of my Bros, got issued his desert boots as he got on the plane to come home!!!

 

Kit wise, if you are doing front line, then you need 90 PLCE (in service from 86, just) which is olive green. The respirator pouch you need is the one with the stitching in lines down the front, the ones without this are mainly from 1992/93, and an Olive green Bergan. Do not get any DPM webbing. The only exception to this is the Artkis NI chest harnes, which is DPM, was quite common as a private purchase out there. You need an S10 respirator, which was never very far from the user. You can use a mixture of green and desert stuff, as this was very common, as some were given desert vest covers, but had green combats, or the other way round, ect ect. Dont forget your body armour. The one you need has a single big pocket on the front, and none on the back. It only has the soft linning and no other plate. You need SA80 A1, or LSWA1 or GPMG

 

Rear Echelon Was 58 Pat webbing, SLR and mainly green kit. You could have been issued either S6 or S10 respirator and body armour. SLR, SMG or 7.62 LMG (Bren) was the order of the day.

 

Hope that helps, I know quite abit about this subject, being an ex member of the Gulf War society. Any questions, ask away.....

[AlienFTM]

Any questions, ask away.....

I recognise your superior knowledge. I had been out about 18 months when Granby kicked off. (My new colleagues were worried that being ex-Recce I'd be called up. However my MEG was Mil ACCT because I had transferred out. As I put it to my colleagues, if I got called up, they'd better start digging shelters from the buckets of sunshine cos we'd be in really deep.)

 

Let me ask you a couple of questions.

 

As I say, I seem to remember there being some calling up of reservists. I did an SA80 conversion course in 1989. If a reservist were not SA80 trained in 1991, would he be trained on SA80 (my conversion lasted 5 days, so there was surely time before Granby went hot) or would he take SLR / SMG and add to the logistical nightmare of 5.56mm / 7.62mm / 9mm ammunition?

 

Ditto webbing. Were returning reservists issued webbing at depot or at their units, in which former case would reservists find themselves with 57 even though the unit as a whole had the new stuff?

 

Boots. I still have a pair of DMS and had I been called up for Granby I would have thought long and hard about whether to wear DMS or CH in theatre. I can imagine a soft, boken-in pair of DMS far more comfortable in the desert than a pair of tough CH Mark 1s.

 

Your thoughts?

[Adam Elsdon]

I cant see S6 Respirators been in use, we had S10 well before that point, i dont recall anybody with S6, we were heavily trained in NBC drills as it was thought Saddam would use Chemical at the first sniff of losing, as he had already used it on his own people.

[sas pinkie]

I have got Pics of a land rover engineer, and his RE escort, both with S6, but agree the S10 was far more widespread.

 

I guess you would have received all your kit from your unit, meaning you would get the same as them. I know loads of people that felt the same about the boots, even the SAS fellows wore thier german mountain boots, instead of the issued (and I find, uncomfortable) desert boots.

 

I know of a few reservists, that were called back, and never actually left Saudi, they were the rear party just sat twiddling thier thumbs, and I know of at least one that had to deal with a Yank that had managed to shoot himself......... Again, the resupply of the SAS in Wadi Turbul was carried out by R sqd, which was so called as it mainly consisted of reservists.....

[AlienFTM]

I handed in my S6 when I left in 1989. At that point Worthy Down had only just secured agreement to get SA80: until then it was earmarked never to get SA80 because it was a depot and the bean-counters felt that it would save a few pounds by letting them use SLR / SMG. Until people started coming through on the All Arms courses who had never seen an SLR or SMG but had to have a personal weapon. Everybody at some time would be posted to a unit with SA80, so everybody had to be trained and SA80 was the common denominator.

 

There was no prospect in 1989 of us being reissued with a new respirator when the S6 was still adequate for a Cold War that nobody ever believed would warm up even if we had to prepare for it. A few months later, down came the Wall and any need to rush things was gone.

 

Basically Granby was a mix and match of everything (I have even heard tales of people being moved between units out there and having to change SLR to SA80 AND reverse because that's what individual units had). IMO you could wear anything contemporary to represent the Granby period with complete justification because somewhere somebody wore it on Granby.

 

Followed swiftly by Options For change, goodbye to old regimental friends and now that the army is so much more compact and we need one armoured division instead of three (recently four) in BAOR we can afford to equip everybody, especially now we can sell off all our Chieftains etc.

[jockaneese]

Hi Ian,

 

Now here's a subject i can help with...

*cracks knuckles*

So granby kicked of 1991(ish)

At tht time PLCE was just being introduced in its original green form (the dpm being released in 1992)

As such the green stuff was painted in all manners of derert paint in order to cam it up.

However as is the case with all ops not enough of PLCE was available and too many old and bold prefered the feel of there 1958 pattern webbing. So many rigs were B*stardised with '58 pouches and even '44 pattern W/B pouches for a bit of flair!

NI chest rigs bought privatly were also popular, complete with derert garb of course!

And if you're going down the "them" route then you need a 1970's pattern lightweight pack and several drop loop 1958 pouches, and roll pin belt, but beware this stuff can get pricey!

Finally a PLCE green bergen painted up should complete the look.

Don't forget the desert dpm has to be the earlier type with small buttons and thicker feel (much like the temperate dpm, but a different colour) as for smocks the desert dpm smock didn't exist so try either a 1942 sand smock or an american "night vision camouflage" smock, both were used at the time...

 

and relax...

[extrogg]

Have a look at the Royal Corps of Transport group on facebook..theres tons of pics on there.

 

All the webbing was 58 pattern and desert combats...have you got a Sperm Badge?

 

Ive got a US desert night parka in my loft not doing much..interested?

[gwrco]

yep, as the guys say, the kit was a mish mash! I went out in tropical dpms, arctic smock, black high leg boots, 58ptn webbing, slr, etc. After a couple of months 'in theatre', i'd been issued desert dpm, acquired us issue desert hi legs, omani issue desert dpm smock, and sand coloured 58ptn webbing (omani issue). The omani stuff came via an uncle of mine who was a WO1 on loan service to the omani army!

 

tim

[Jonny666]

well they did call the british army at that point the antques roadshow lol

 

i am gunna be sorting my gear out for a op granby look soon got most of it just trying to find some resonible price OD PLCE

[Meteor mark 4B]

Hmm...I thought the "antiques roadshow" referred to the Centurion AVREs of the Armoured Engineer Regiment??

[Jonny666]

Hmm...I thought the "antiques roadshow" referred to the Centurion AVREs of the Armoured Engineer Regiment??

 

well i am going on what an american friend of mine told me as he was in the US marines during the 91 conflict and they said that they called all the brit army it

[AlienFTM]

well i am going on what an american friend of mine told me as he was in the US marines during the 91 conflict and they said that they called all the brit army it

I'll say nothing about the US troops invited to look at our kit (so that they might recognise it in the heat of battle) who asked, when presented with a Scimitar, "So you guys drive around in BMPs then?"

 

No wonder we suffer friendly fire.

[Jonny666]

I'll say nothing about the US troops invited to look at our kit (so that they might recognise it in the heat of battle) who asked, when presented with a Scimitar, "So you guys drive around in BMPs then?"

 

No wonder we suffer friendly fire.

 

 

lol yanks are yanks! but they do make my blood boil in the fact that they seem to think that they are god like on the battlefield

[Tony B]

Come on the Yanks did have a handicap, MRE's. A mate who was out there said for a couple of rat packs you could get any US kit! :-D

Paddy Ashdown came out with a beauty 'The British worry about their men on the ground, the American's worry at fifteen thousand feet'.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Tony B