how to seperate manifold from block?

[pigdog]

Ok I removed the brass nuts with a minimum of cuss words, now I'm trying to separate the exhaust mainfold from the block.

Do I need to remove the studs to get the manifold off or is there a trick to getting off without breaking the studs?

Thanks-Chris

Ferret 00 EC 55

[griff66]

nice one.:cool2:

[griff66]

those studs look like they are crying out for a wire brush and never seize grease:cool2:

[fv1609]

SUCCESS! I also need to check the tappets and replace the gaskets there. What manual has that info? I thought I have all of them but havent found it yet.

 

It might be covered in paint but most engines will have a small plate on the rocker cover giving the tappet clearances. The exhaust is 0.015 in (0.381 mm)

 

Well done on shifting that.To clean up the studs I find a good way to hold a die in place is to clamp it with a Jubilee clip then you've got something to grip.

[Richard Farrant]

Well done Chris.

[john fox]

What manual has that info? I thought I have all of them but havent found it yet.

 

you need the generic B60 engine manual rather than a Ferret manual

[fv1609]

What manual has that info? I thought I have all of them but havent found it yet.

 

Tappet clearances are in the Ferret User Handbook as well.

[Adam Elsdon]

Or even better Bostik 'Never Seize' available in 980C, 1400C or nuclear grade. We always used the standard grade on Mitsubishi Evo turbo studs and never had any problems.

 

That stuff is incredible, you could put it onto a steel nut/stud heat the steel to near melting point and lash salt water over it, and it wont let corrosion attack the metal and still provide lubrication to get the nut off.

Ive had a tin of it for years, and only use it for high temperature applications.

[pigdog]

Thanks guys.

Now the big question is.....

Do I go ahead and remove the other manifold and replace the gaskets there, or wait and replace them when they blow???

The mating surface on the one removed is pretty rough and its a little warped. Do I need to get it milled down to a smooth surface? Any high temp sealer used on the manifold?

Ok I have the generic B60 manual, and have the gap settings tag. Do I need to use the timming mark for setting the tappets cold?

--Thanks--Chris

My arms are all black and blue from digging in the engine bay for the last 2 days.

[fv1609]

Now the big question is.....

Do I go ahead and remove the other manifold and replace the gaskets there, or wait and replace them when they blow???

The mating surface on the one removed is pretty rough and its a little warped. Do I need to get it milled down to a smooth surface? Any high temp sealer used on the manifold?

 

I would replace the other side & do the job properly. Several reasons:

 

Just think how mad you will be if you have to dismantle that side in the future.

If you are lucky & it doesn't let you down, just consider the difficulty you have had undoing this side. Just think how much more difficult it will be with a bit more corrosion just on the exposed threads.

If you need to reface the manifold you have got off, there will be a bit of a discrepancy with the depth on the other one. So best to reface that one a little whether it needs it or not so they are balanced.

 

You'll be glad when you've done both sides & it will be an investment for the future as you'll no doubt be using that anti-seize stuff & you will have peace of mind from a job done well.

Edited January 31, 2010 by fv1609

[pigdog]

I figured I should just do them all. I have all the gaskets. I have a local car show in March that I want to take my Ferret for its first showing. Its a British pre-1975 show. Wait till they see the Ferret drive in! :wow:

[pigdog]

Ok both the manifolds are off now. The second one went alot quicker. The brass nuts which I assume are all the same size when new are a bit like squashed marshmallows. Can/should they be replaced?

-Chris

ferret 00 EC 55

[fv1609]

Chris well done. Yes they were all the same size, once! I would gently flatten them up with a file to get them uniform. I would use the poorer ones on the upper row so that if there are future difficulties getting them off then you can get at them better. I think new ones will be hard to find.

[Toolman]

Hello guys

 

Chris, sorry to Hijack your thread but I'm appear to be directly following your progress, albeit 2 days later then you!

 

I finally got the b*st*rds off! :-) That was a tedius job, I've been at it days. Both sides of the manifolds were blowing, and now that they are off i can see why. The manifold face seems to have eroded away in parts. The worst erosion is where the gaskets had blown.

 

A couple of queries. Will I be able to get the faces machined flat? And If I do, will it put the exhaust assembly out of alignment? I know it won't be by much, but will it matter?

 

Secondly, what is the thread size of the studs? I thought it looked to be 5/16 UNF, but the brass nuts don't seem to like it. I think I will need to use a tap and die on the studs and nuts, as the studs are badly corroded, and quite a few of the nuts stripped on removal.

 

How are you getting on Chris? I'm following your lead :-D

 

Cheers

 

Matt

[Richard Farrant]

A couple of queries. Will I be able to get the faces machined flat? And If I do, will it put the exhaust assembly out of alignment? I know it won't be by much, but will it matter?

 

Secondly, what is the thread size of the studs?

 

 

 

Matt,

 

Go to a good machine shop that specialises in engine work, it is quite a common job to face off manifolds. The two manifolds in this case need not be exactly the same as there are two separate elbows, if it were a Saracen then yes they should be the same. Studs are 5/16" UNF thread........unless you have an early engine.......if it has "UNF" cast on the rocker cover then that is what it should be.

[pigdog]

Matt,

Its good this thread is helping you out also. I'll be picking up my manifolds today from the machine shop. I'll post a pic when I get them. Mine where like yours. The studs are 5/16 24 thread. I have some dies comming tomorrow to be able to renew the threads. I still have to look at the exhaust tappets. The copy of the generic B60 engine manual I have seems to be missing the pages for setting them.

:mad:

-Chris

 

here are the machined manifolds. Nice and smoooth. Theres a crack on the one which hopefully wont turn around and bite me later.

Edited February 4, 2010 by pigdog

[john fox]

Will I be able to get the faces machined flat? And If I do, will it put the exhaust assembly out of alignment? I know it won't be by much, but will it matter?

 

 

Matt

I had mine machined years ago and yes it did put the exhaust out of alignment, but only in so much as it meant the 2 expansion pipes were at a slight angle.

This was enough however to mean the pipes have never reseated as an air tight seal - but then we all know that these pipes leak like buxxer and anyway a significant contributor to the leak, is the amount of wear on the pipe flanges and/or inside the elbow castings themselves. So you might find yourself in the same camp as me ie. you have moved the blow from the manifold to the expansion pipes!

There are many and varied suggestions for sealing those pipes, few appear to work other than using the correct bore of flexible exhaust pipe or reforming the pipe flanges by brazing on new metal and machining that also

[pigdog]

I have at least 1 of the brass nuts thats stripped. What do I use to replace it? Could I use a brass spacer and hex nut combo?

About sealing the loose pipes. Could a little high temp RTV sealant do it?

-Chris

Ferret 00 EC 55

[ferrettkitt]

I have at least 1 of the brass nuts thats stripped. What do I use to replace it? Could I use a brass spacer and hex nut combo?

About sealing the loose pipes. Could a little high temp RTV sealant do it?

-Chris

Ferret 00 EC 55

 

 

Buy a pack or two of these and use a spacer made out of brass of course

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5-16-UNF-BRASS-MANIFOLD-NUTS-UN71-pack-of-4_W0QQitemZ370317127761QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN?hash=item56389ef051#ht_500wt_956

 

The same person has studs as well not sure if these would work but I suspect that they would do.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5-16-x-1-1-2-UNF-STUD-PLUS-BRASS-NUT_W0QQitemZ370293821899QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item56373b51cb#ht_500wt_956

 

You should be able to buy the brass nuts at your local car spares shop.

Edited February 8, 2010 by ferrettkitt

[Toolman]

John

 

It seems that those pipes always are an issue. The previous owner of my ferret had wrapped them in some high temp exhaust bandages, held tight by jubilee clips, but this seemed to only be a temporary fix. I have purchased 2 new pipes from banisters, so I'm hoping that the castings themselves are not too worn. My manifold is in for surface grinding at the moment, so fingers crossed I will get it back by midweek. I have recut the stud threads, that was a job, they were so rusted, my right hand and arm are killing me :-)

 

Chris, I managed to get 6 new genuine nuts, which was a good job, because at least 4 or 5 of mine had totally stripped! I'm all ready now to bolt the manifold back up, when i get it back :-D

 

I did see some 5/16 unf brass unf nuts on ebay, however I didn't see any with the same type of collar.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370317127761&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

But I don't know if they will ship to the US?

 

I've been trying to find out what torque the nuts should be, would that be in the B60 manual, or does anyone know the figures offhand?

 

Regarding, the mis-alignment, I was wondering about using 2 thick gaskets on the inner hull side, to try and counter the reduction in manifold width?

 

Cheers

 

Matt

[Toolman]

Great minds Andy :-D

[ferrettkitt]

Great minds Andy :-D

 

Matt yours might be great mines positively dodgy! Lol

[pigdog]

Matt,

The only torque settings I've read are the head nuts and the wheel lug nuts. I'll have to get some brass nuts then for mine. Let me know if you find out. I turned my fingers raw trying to renew the stud threads. I finally got a 2 ton crane so I can lift off the engine deck. More room now. I still have to get the hull exhaust off. It seems to be a tuff one. I'm also going to paint the exhaust with hi-temp paint.

-Chris

Edited February 9, 2010 by pigdog
added pic

[ferrettkitt]

Matt,

The only torque settings I've read are the head nuts and the wheel lug nuts. I'll have to get some brass nuts then for mine. Let me know if you find out. I turned my fingers raw trying to renew the stud threads. I finally got a 2 ton crane so I can lift off the engine deck. More room now. I still have to get the hull exhaust off. It seems to be a tuff one. I'm also going to paint the exhaust with hi-temp paint.

-Chris

 

Clean the threads off on the bolts and add plenty of penetrating fluid (rag underneath to catch the run off) and leave to soak. When you do set out to undo the nuts from the bolts try undoing them gradually and switch to another bolt when one of them has started to undo. I have undone them before by using a nice long extension bar / socket and wedging a spanner on the bolt head up against the wing.

[pigdog]

Thanks for the help. I was able to get the last hull exhaust off yesterday. I need some new bolts. Only 2 were the proper size. The gasket sure was a flakey mess.

-Chris

[Toolman]

My manifolds have been collected and are ready for fitment :-)

 

I'm now wondering if I need to look at the exhaust valve clearances like Chris? Although access to the flywheel is seriously blocked by my new 352/353 clansman installation! :-D