Saracen Build-up

[Richard Farrant]

Hi guys,

 

Just an update. The R/h front bevel box was stripped in situ. The results was not as bad as

I expected! These machines are durable! Next question, how on earth did the pinion rotate so freely( really!) if only one tooth is broken? The front wheel was not lifted or turned.

 

 

Hi Montie,

 

Looks like you are going to have to lift the engine out then. Bevel gears are matched pairs and have to be shimmed up to get correct tooth engagement, so not a job that can be done insitu. Are you saying the crown wheel can be turned without jacking up the wheel?

[montie]

Continued from previous post.

 

Some more details from the Saracen.

 

The Gilmer belt set-up on the fans, alternator and pumps.

 

The watertanks as added, One on each side on the rear.

 

The water trap and watersensor in the fuel supply line.

 

The engine controls and instruments.

 

The air cleaner set-up.

 

Not working on the GT40 as can be seen by the mess in the garage!

 

Till later.

[montie]

Hi Richard,

 

Haven't gotten round to trying that. Access is a wee bit difficult. Surely the pinion itself could not be turning alone. There is evidence of damage to the bearing cage though and the pinion did move longitudinally (maybe 1/4 inch or so) before dismanteling. The exploded drawings from Oily is a big help, it does add more questions though, like for example, if the crown wheel turns, what else could be sheared off?

[Richard Farrant]

Hi Richard,

 

Haven't gotten round to trying that. Access is a wee bit difficult. Surely the pinion itself could not be turning alone. There is evidence of damage to the bearing cage though and the pinion did move longitudinally (maybe 1/4 inch or so) before dismanteling. The exploded drawings from Oily is a big help, it does add more questions though, like for example, if the crown wheel turns, what else could be sheared off?

 

Hi Montie,

It could be a tracta fork shaft in the drive line that has broken ( one of four forks ), tracta joint broken up or epicyclic reduction in hub has stripped teeth.

 

An inspection of the hub reduction gear might be worth doing to eliminate.

[montie]

Hi Richard,

 

I have stripped off the hub cap from the reduction hub. There is no evidence of any metal particles in the oil that was drained off. Also when turning (rotating) the wheel, one can hear the motion being transfered, the sound of items grounging elsewhere at/in the body and not in the reduction hub. I have also made up the tool as shown in the Unit repairs Technical handbook in anticipation of having had to strip the reduction box assembly.

 

I think your suggestion that it might be a tracta fork (one of four per wheel station?) or a tracta joint that is broken up, is on the nose. The exploded drawings I got from Oily shows the parts of the bevel box. Maybe there are additional drawings for the parts (Tracta forks) in question?

 

[montie]

Hi guys,

 

Something that came past me via e-mail and I can't resist adding it to the post. I copied it from the mail for your benefit.

 

 

 

If any of you have ever been to a military funeral in which 'The Last Post' was played; this brings out a new meaning of it.

 

 

 

Here is something everyone should know. Until I read this, I didn't know, but I checked it out and it's true:

 

 

 

We have all heard the haunting song, 'The Last Post.' It's the song that gives us the lump in our throats and usually tears in our eyes.

 

 

 

But, do you know the story behind the song? If not, I think you will be interested to find out about its humble beginnings.

 

 

 

Reportedly, it all began in 1862 during the American Civil War, when Union Army Captain Robert Ellicombe was with his men near Harrison's Landing in Virginia . The Confederate Army was on the other side of the narrow strip of land.

 

 

 

During the night, Captain Ellicombe heard the moans of a soldier who lay severely wounded on the field. Not knowing if it was a Union or Confederate soldier, the Captain decided to risk his life and bring the stricken man back for medical attention. Crawling on his stomach through the gunfire, the Captain reached the stricken soldier and began pulling him toward his encampment.

 

 

 

When the Captain finally reached his own lines, he discovered it was actually a Confederate soldier, but the soldier was dead.

 

 

 

The Captain lit a lantern and suddenly caught his breath and went numb with shock. In the dim light, he saw the face of the soldier. It was his own son. The boy had been studying music in the South when the war broke out. Without telling his father, the boy enlisted in the Confederate Army.

 

 

 

The following morning, heartbroken, the father asked permission of his superiors to give his son a full military burial, despite his enemy status. His request was only partially granted.

 

 

 

The Captain had asked if he could have a group of Army band members play a funeral dirge for his son at the funeral.

 

 

 

The request was turned down since the soldier was a Confederate.

 

 

 

But, out of respect for the father, they did say they could give him only one musician.

 

 

 

The Captain chose a bugler. He asked the bugler to play a series of musical notes he had found on a piece of paper in the pocket of the dead youth's uniform.

 

 

 

This wish was granted.

 

 

 

The haunting melody, we now know as 'The Last Post' used at military funerals was born.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The words are:

 

Day is done.

Gone the sun.

From the lakes

From the hills.

From the sky.

All is well.

Safely rest.

God is nigh.

 

Fading light.

Dims the sight.

And a star.

Gems the sky.

Gleaming bright.

From afar.

Drawing nigh.

Falls the night.

 

Thanks and praise.

For our days.

Neath the sun

Neath the stars.

Neath the sky

As we go.

This we know.

God is nigh

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I too have felt the chills while listening to 'The Last Post' but I have never seen all the words to the song until now. I didn't even know there was more than one verse . I also never knew the story behind the song and I didn't know if you had either so I thought I'd pass it along.

 

 

 

I now have an even deeper respect for the song than I did before.

 

 

 

Remember Those Lost and Harmed While Serving Their Country.

 

 

 

Also Remember Those Who Have Served And Returned; and for those presently serving in the Armed Forces.

 

 

[Richard Farrant]

Montie,

 

A few rough illustrations from an EMER attached. I would have a strong guess that it is the inner tracta that has broken, if so the wheel station and tracta shaft housing assembly as shown in Fig.12 could be pulled out in one, this should reveal all. It needs to be out, in order to remove the bevel box ( and engine needs removing of course ). You need to wedge the the torsion bar arm in order to hold the upper wishbone up out of the way. Details should be in your EMER, see attched Fig.8

[montie]

Hi Richard,

 

I was planning to go camping this weekend but too many unforeseen had us cancel. This gives me time again to have a closer look at the problem.

 

Here are pics of the tool for the reduction box.

 

 

 

[Richard Farrant]

Here are pics of the tool for the reduction box.

 

 

 

 

 

Montie,

 

We knew that as the "gagging tool" ! You might not need it on this occasion if you pull the whole lot out as one, as in my attachment previously, unless there is damage in the hub or outer tracta.

[montie]

Hi guys,

 

When checking the crownwheel now, I found that it rotates easily. Richard's guess that it is a broken tracta joint seems to be spot on. Now for removing the wheel station!

 

Montie

[montie]

Hi,

 

A productive evening! Two wedges manufactured as per Hub and Tracta removal EMER. I also got hold of a drift today although it is made of copper as well as a lifting pulley, I need to make a shaft for the pulley centre hole which is a bit larger than spec, but it should do. The sling, wooden wedge and key for the suspension pin also still to be manufactured.

 

Regards.

 

Montie.

[AndyFowler]

Hi,

 

A productive evening! Two wedges manufactured as per Hub and Tracta removal EMER. I also got hold of a drift today although it is made of copper as well as a lifting pulley, I need to make a shaft for the pulley centre hole which is a bit larger than spec, but it should do. The sling, wooden wedge and key for the suspension pin also still to be manufactured.

 

Regards.

 

Montie.

 

Nice one Montie ! Your enthusiasm does you credit ! Keep it coming as it is very interesting to me !

[Richard Farrant]

Hi,

 

A productive evening! Two wedges manufactured as per Hub and Tracta removal EMER. I also got hold of a drift today although it is made of copper as well as a lifting pulley, I need to make a shaft for the pulley centre hole which is a bit larger than spec, but it should do. The sling, wooden wedge and key for the suspension pin also still to be manufactured.

 

 

 

 

Montie,

 

You should be well equipped with Saracen special tools by the end of this job. Hopefully you should not have to use them again. :-)

[montie]

Hi all,

 

When surfing Youtube, I came across the videos Oily posted on driving his Saracen. Oily, maybe if you have newer videos, please post them, especially ones which shows the driving technique for us aspirant Saracen drivers. There was also a nice clip from somebody (sorry, memory failure) of a Saladin being driven for the first time on the road. Nice!

 

I also remember something posted by Safariwing but I never got round to checking it out. Youtube tends to take one on a field trip everytime!

 

If you guys have also posted MV stuff on Youtube, please let's have the links so that we other newbe forum-guys can also drool!

 

Monty.

[sirhc]

If you guys have also posted MV stuff on Youtube, please let's have the links so that we other newbe forum-guys can also drool!

 

 

Hi Monty,

 

I have some videos here: http://www.youtube.com/user/sirhc05

 

Chris

[montie]

Hi Chris,

 

Thanks for your response, this is what I'm talking about. You have done great work, I have especially enjoyed your video of the Bedford MW restoration in such a short time with all those obstacles that would have fazed lesser mortals like me. And then that sucessfull trip to Normandy and back! That, I think it will be great memories for you to savour for a lifetime and a great boost to your confidence in tackling such jobs!

 

Shows one what can be done if one really wants! Are these restorations just a hobby? It appears to be a fulltime business looking at the time and commitment from you and your team. Good show and great motivation for me too!

 

You have got quite a couple of vids, it is going to take me some time to work through all of them. Thanks once again.

 

Monty.

[sirhc]

Hi Chris,

Shows one what can be done if one really wants! Are these restorations just a hobby? It appears to be a fulltime business looking at the time and commitment from you and your team. Good show and great motivation for me too!

 

 

Hi Monty,

 

Just like your Saracen, this is just a hobby for us. I get bored easily and I need something to do at the weekends! After we put all the time and effort into restoring something it becomes difficult to sell it, hence why we ended up with a bit of a collection. The Bedford was a challenge, but when we couldn't find what we wanted we had no choice but to build it.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing some video of your Saracen when you get it up and running.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

[oily]

Hi again, Montie,..... Just to let you know, -I'll be foraging into my EMERS again later this evening, so keep your eyes peeled for some more 'exploded' diagrams of the tracta joints/drive shafts etc, etc.....

 

I'll scan some more in and send 'em by email.....:-D

 

Regards,

 

Matt

[montie]

Hi Matt,

 

With your's and Richard's help, I should be able to beat the problem.

 

I hope I am not jumping the gun, but it seems that I will be in the market for several spares shortly. Richard gave me a contact for spares and I will get on to them as soon as I know what needs replacement. Apparently there is a reputable gear-cutting company in Johannesburg that can refurbish the pinion, I will contact them on Monday. Fortunately, I have a friend that travels to Jo'burg daily and he will drop the pinion off at their place of business.

 

I will be keeping an eye out for your mail, thanks.

 

Monty.

[montie]

Hi guys,

 

Turning our attention to the R/H Centre wheel reduction hub, inspections revealed that the bearing cage has been rubbing againt the hub cap. A very good flush and a new bearing should sort the problem on this wheel. Research on the Internet for bearing cross reference part numbers showed that a lot of manufacturers carry this bearing (RMS 10). Upon phoning

the first Bearing company, I was told that they have one bearing in stock! At a price of R 154.00 (more or less 11 pounds), I thought it was a give away. Now for removing that bearing without major disassembly!

 

 

Today I removed the offending bearing with a home made bearing puller (welded a pipe to the inside of the outer bearing cage with a home made sliding hammer welded to the other end of the tube). I thought when planning the episode; "Remove bearing, clean housing, refit bearing, fit lockplate and nut and refit hubcap. Easy, piece of pie, be home early, clean and dry!" Well, never count your chickens before they have hatched!

 

The bearing came out easily without a lot of fuss. This revealed a sunwheel that will never be a sunwheel again. Richard, I will have to use the "gagging tool" after all! A lot of damage to the planet gears can also be seen and probably the annullus will have some irrepairable damage too!

 

 

 

 

 

 

The slotted plugs that are to be removed to fit the bolts for extracting the gearhousing with are very stubborn, the impact tool tip for removing the plugs shattered eventually. Chinese rubbish!

 

Frustration! I will now have to turn my attention to making up some of the outstanding tools still required for removal of that front wheel station.

 

Till later.

[Richard Farrant]

Hi Montie,

 

Bad news then, at least you can use your new tool. Is there any chance of finding a scrap Saracen in your country? You will need a good few parts and heavy ones, so it is worth asking around.

 

Some years ago, I had someone from SA contact me regarding a Saracen, he had problems with it and was seeking advice, all I can remember was that he was connected with pleasure flights in light aircraft or helicopters.

 

regards, Richard

[montie]

Hi Richard,

 

The South African Defense Force did purchase 280 of them at the time, as per inserted paragraph. The problem is however, that as far as I know, that the majority are in the hands of security companies (crime rules in SA, of course!) and a few in military museums or just parked outside on parade grounds of army bases. This is history that belonged to the previous regime and not cared for now.

 

In 1953 South Africa purchased 10 Saracen Mk 1’s for evaluation. A further order of 270 was placed with Alvis Ltd the following year, arriving in South Africa in 1956. The majority of the vehicles, on arrival, were placed in storage to form part of the Centurion, Saracen and Ferret fleet for the South African Armored Corps. A quantity was used for training. Eight Saracens were allocated to the South African Police for internal security operations. Through lack of engine spares caused by the United Nations arms embargo the Saracens were withdrawn from service in 1975 and once again placed in storage as reserve. In 1977 South Africa started on a modification and upgrading program. After extensive trials which lasted until 1979 a refurbishing contract was awarded to the South African Railway Workshop, Uitenhage, in the Eastern Cape. Refurbishing took place from 1979 to 1981, modifying 270 vehicles. These modified Saracens were again introduced to the South African army until they were withdrawn from service in 1991 to be replaced with the Ratel Infantry Combat Vehicle. A quantity of these Saracens was also sold to local security firms

 

 

I got this off the internet and Jane's Defense Weekly somehow rings a bell.

I know of a few around and have tried to talk to the owners about spares but they would have none of that! I will need to find that willing seller, albeit not at ridiculous prices. Wish me luck!

Monty.

PS.

Nothing came from working on the other tools, Sunday afternoon laziness set in after lunch!

[montie]

Hi Chris,

 

Thank you for the PM, I have just written and sent off the letter. I greatly appreciate your help.

 

Now to the garage and the tools to be constructed!

 

Monty.

[montie]

Hi guys,

 

Another productive evening, all the tools for the wheel station removal except for the lifting sling is now manufactured.

 

The pinion is also on its way to the gear refurbishing company. Now I can get some sleep!

 

Regards.

 

Monty

[AndyFowler]

Hi guys,

 

Another productive evening, all the tools for the wheel station removal except for the lifting sling is now manufactured.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]27221[/ATTACH]

The pinion is also on its way to the gear refurbishing company. Now I can get some sleep!

 

Regards.

 

Monty

 

Well done mate keep this rate up and you'll be driving her soon !