Dougy FV432 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Hi All, On my Santa list is a GPMG to go on my 432. It seems that a real one is getting further and further from my pocket money budget! I have seen landrovers laden with replica ones over the last show season, so if they can have a couple, maybe my pocket money may stretch to one. I have seen a company "ukfire" i think, but they only seem to do wooden stock or sustained fire ones the last time i looked, plus you seem to have written permission from your great great great great grand parents! Has anyone had any dealings with them? I know there are articles on the VCR Act but how does it affect me if i want a replica GPMG, in idiot terms please! Regards Dougy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan turner (RIP) Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 dougy are you going to fit it up like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Is that fifty mount a pucca MOD bit of kit or a civvy lash up? I've not seen that on a 432 before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Burley Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Civvy lash up i think. Ithink this was up for sale last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Hi All, On my Santa list is a GPMG to go on my 432. It seems that a real one is getting further and further from my pocket money budget! I have seen landrovers laden with replica ones over the last show season, so if they can have a couple, maybe my pocket money may stretch to one. I have seen a company "ukfire" i think, but they only seem to do wooden stock or sustained fire ones the last time i looked, plus you seem to have written permission from your great great great great grand parents! Has anyone had any dealings with them? I know there are articles on the VCR Act but how does it affect me if i want a replica GPMG, in idiot terms please! Regards Dougy The VCR is a Pain, in any part of the anatomy. Not to mention Bloody pointless. Get a bunch of mates and form the MV Am Dram Society, then claim the MV are there as a 'Artful, dramatic' exibition. You'd then fufuil the requirment under VCR and proably get a grant from the Art's Council. Squash a few cars as a 'Statment of the Consumer Society's waste of rescoures in entertainmet. Humm, scratch that , may try the idea myself. 'Dear Sir, I have an inspirational art idea for display, just send me £80,000,000 and get ready for the auctuion of 'Art Work' afterwards' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan turner (RIP) Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 (edited) the 50cal on the 432 was not a civvie lash up these shots were taken in1989 on salisbury plain, there are also similar shots of an M548 supply truck in the set. Probably only to test out their effects but they are military views. These are the sort of Gems that are in the RAWHS collection. so if you fit your kit out like it there is photographic proof. Edited December 2, 2009 by alan turner (RIP) missed a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodge Deep Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Hi All, On my Santa list is a GPMG to go on my 432. It seems that a real one is getting further and further from my pocket money budget! I have seen landrovers laden with replica ones over the last show season, so if they can have a couple, maybe my pocket money may stretch to one. I have seen a company "ukfire" i think, but they only seem to do wooden stock or sustained fire ones the last time i looked, plus you seem to have written permission from your great great great great grand parents! Has anyone had any dealings with them? I know there are articles on the VCR Act but how does it affect me if i want a replica GPMG, in idiot terms please! Regards Dougy In its simplest amoebic state You want to buy a REAL deactivated weapon to current government spec... no problem... splash the cash & Bobs y'tooled up auntie Can't afford a real one and will settle for a broomhandle and some wood shavings in the approximate shape of a 50cal then you have to jump through more hoops than best is show at Crufts and prove you're bona fide silly... but thats where we find ourselves a broken real gun is (apparently) less dangerous than a broomhandle glued to a shoebox go figure!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john fox Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I know there are articles on the VCR Act but how does it affect me if i want a replica GPMG, in idiot terms please! in a nutshell you're most common route is to be a card carrying member of a formally constituted re enactment group which holds public liability insurance in order to buy a VCR compliant replica weapon which is painted black. for example see this supplier's explanation of their terms of trade and their £325 L7A1 GPMG which they will sell you but only as an item which is painted red unless you meet the VCR conditions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy FV432 Posted December 4, 2009 Author Share Posted December 4, 2009 Hi All, Thanks for all your replies. Looks like i need to keep saving and get a real one then! Alan I know someone who had a 432 that had the 50cal mount, it was "real" they fitted them in the 1st Gulf war. Maybe I could get one of those might be cheaper! Regards Dougy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan turner (RIP) Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Dougy it will probably be cheaper for a 50cal as there were loads more made and about compared to a GPMG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan turner (RIP) Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 or there is alway this dougy if you want to impress the girls with something bigger!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy FV432 Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Hi All, Excellant pics again Alan. Think the wombat might be stretching the budget to far! Another question for everyone is, would the 432 carry just a standard infantry GPMG, i guess with a tripod, but would it have the heavy duty barrel? All the pics I've seen of them mounted on a 432 have a shoulder butt, so that would suggest standard, but you would have thought the heavier barrel as it would be surely giving support fire. regards Dougy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpltomo Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Hi All, Excellant pics again Alan. Think the wombat might be stretching the budget to far! Another question for everyone is, would the 432 carry just a standard infantry GPMG, i guess with a tripod, but would it have the heavy duty barrel? All the pics I've seen of them mounted on a 432 have a shoulder butt, so that would suggest standard, but you would have thought the heavier barrel as it would be surely giving support fire. regards Dougy Now that is a question. The ones we had with fox and sabre had both barrels one for coax mount and one for ground roll. so you could have both when we monuted them on the turret we used the normal barrel with the adjustable gas plug. coax mounted it was with the hardened barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Can someone give me an answer to those of us who own wooden GPMG's and alike prior to the VCR act coming into force. I.E - Already own before the act was actioned. Ta Markheliops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 (edited) Hi All, Excellant pics again Alan. Think the wombat might be stretching the budget to far! Another question for everyone is, would the 432 carry just a standard infantry GPMG, i guess with a tripod, but would it have the heavy duty barrel? All the pics I've seen of them mounted on a 432 have a shoulder butt, so that would suggest standard, but you would have thought the heavier barrel as it would be surely giving support fire. regards Dougy The 432 would DEFINATELY carry an L7A2 STANDARD infantry pattern MG. It would NOT carry a tripod as a normal C.E.S item. There is only ONE standard Barrel for this version. A spare would be carried with a Ground Gunner in a bag. In the VERY early stages of this weapons career, it DID indeed have a heavy Barrel with two flutes machined into it. It was found to be of little benifit with the extra weigh to be carried by SF gun teams. So, an ordinary Barrel was substituted as it can be changed in seconds & then reused when cooled sufficiently. Mike.:coffee: Edited December 9, 2009 by ferretfixer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Now that is a question. The ones we had with fox and sabre had both barrels one for coax mount and one for ground roll. so you could have both when we monuted them on the turret we used the normal barrel with the adjustable gas plug. coax mounted it was with the hardened barrel. The Fox carried the L37 variant. This (As ALL GPMG variants) has the same body/ reciever. (Except of course, the engraved nomencleture for each weapon is different!) this had a barrel with NO foresight assembly & the Gas plug was TOTALLY different from the gound role L7A2. It was, however adjustable. BUT, only into one of three positions. All AFV's fitted with the L37 & MBT's with the L48. ALSO carried a 'Kit' which comprised of a Wooden then later plastic Butt assembly, a Bipod Assembly, & a Ground role Barrel WITH foresight assembly & NORMAL style gas plug. this was to enable the gun to be dismounted from the vehicle's rigid mounting & 'converted' into a Ground Role weapon. Just to complicate matters, the Scorpion carried a variant specific to that vehicle ONLY, called the L43. there is NO such thing as a hardened barrel. If it were so, it would split when firing! the breech blocks are hardened. But NEVER the barrels. (in ANY smallarm) ALL GPMG variant Barrels are stellite Chrome plated internally to prevent wear. :coffee: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john fox Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I.E - Already own before the act was actioned. it is legal to continue to own it and keep it at your home it is illegal to: a) sell it to someone who does not meet VCR requirements b) have it in your possession outside your own home unless you are yourself VCR compliant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Thanks John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan turner (RIP) Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Dougy if you should change your mind about fitting the BATGUN, then there is a word of warning only fire straight ahead either of the diagonals and this happens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy FV432 Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi All, thanks for all your replies, has been very informative especially about the spec of the GPMG John. And yes Alan, if that sort of thing was to happen it would happen to me! Going back to the VCR act, if you had a replica prior to it being enforced and you don't meet requirements now, where do you stand, would you no longer be able to display it on your vehicle? Is there documentation that goes along with a replica similar to a deact? Regards Dougy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john fox Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 if you had a replica prior to it being enforced and you don't meet requirements now, where do you stand, would you no longer be able to display it on your vehicle? see my post #17 below Is there documentation that goes along with a replica similar to a deact? there is no documentation for the gun, the paperwork relates to the person. either the gun is VCR compliant because it is painted in the approved "bright" (unrealistic) colours or, if it is black, it is held by a person who has the relevant reenactment membership paperwork. (The other "defences" under the Act are a bit unlikely for a vehicle on the road, eg theatrical use) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Just to complicate matters, the Scorpion carried a variant specific to that vehicle ONLY, called the L43. What was the difference on this variant (I'm restoring a Scorpion and will probably require one)? I have also seen some GPMG's which have a different flash arrestor that doesn't have the holes in it (ie like a pipe). What is this variant? Vince Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john fox Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) I have also seen some GPMG's which have a different flash arrestor that doesn't have the holes in it (ie like a pipe). What is this variant? all internally mounted / co-ax mounted GPMG have a fume extractor (the "pipe") instead of the normal flash suppressor seen on infantry versions, the carrying handle/barrel change lever is also removed and replaced by a smaller lever the common versions are: L37 - retains pistol grip (used in eg: Ferret and Fox turret mount) L8 - pistol grip removed, replaced by trigger mechanism designed to link with turret electrics (eg: Chieftain, etc) Edited January 3, 2010 by john fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy FV432 Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 Hi All, Thanks again everyone for the info, I believe the GPMG in the smaller pics on this page is the correct one for a turret mount http://www.fv432.co.uk/wwwfv432couk/armament/GPMGpics.htm It has the fume extractor and smaller barrel lever etc, have some better pics somewhere. Regards Dougy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 What was the difference on this variant (I'm restoring a Scorpion and will probably require one)? I have also seen some GPMG's which have a different flash arrestor that doesn't have the holes in it (ie like a pipe). What is this variant? Vince The L43 is UNIQUE to the Scorpion. The differences are: flash hider is held on with an external circlip with a small 'spike' in it which clips onto the outside of the flash hider & a small hole drilled shallowly into the barrel to retain it. Trigger mech is a 24v solinoid. Has a SHORT stub of a barrel retaining lever. this is retained also by a unique removeable catch assembly to prevent vibration shaking the lever loose. All the above features were done because the weapon was in a ridged mounting coaxialy. This transfered vibration to the gun in usage & parts were shaken loose. so they were designed to prevent this. I had, when I had my Scorpion. PROBABLY the only L34 (Deact) in the country at the time. Manufactured by me at the Factory where I used to make GPMGS for the company. It was the real thing! When I sold the Tank, I sold the L43 privately to another collector who also had a Scorp. Mike. :coffee: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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