commander Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 I think this needs clarifying a bit on my part 1, We were contacted about some DUKWS for sale 2, We were given the telephone number of the farmer 3, We rang the farmer to ask if these were being offered 4, We made an appointment to view 5, We visited said site on day and time arranged 6, We spoke to the farmer who told both of us they were for dissposal 7, We were told that no one had been in touch for over 6yrs 8, We viewed the vehicles and deceided they were to far gone 9, We spoke to the farmer on leaving and informed the scrap man was coming finally I am sure a lot more people have visited this site after being told about them coming for sale in fact as we got there in our recovery vehicle 2 people in a van were coming down the drive having been up to view them we were looking to get at least one for spares for our DUKW and to see if there was any other amphib bits for the SEEP and Stalwart which we have I posted in good faith as I was led to believe these were for sale for there scrap value estimated at £600 each Commander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rippo Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 We have to be careful all the time. Lee acts with the best of intentions for this forum 24/7. This i have no doubts about, but it seems a little heavey handed the way this has been handled. Something to reflect on is i know some peole have stopped posting on here because of this kind of thing , and the ones i know about are the more experianced mv owners which is a real shame for everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 The way the posted was edited late on last night i guess you haven't, or at that point you didn't, you were taking what Duwkmans first post on the forum said, over commanders thread topic. Repeat... no posts were edited... the only thing that has changed is the Title & that wasn't changed until this morning. Until we have info either way that the DUKW's are for sale or not they will remain marked as "NOT FOR SALE" in this thread If someone wants to post an advert for these DUKW's in the classifieds section with contact details & they either own them or have permission to advertise them then fire away... If it turns out Commander is correct & these turn out to be for sale the he will get an apology... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I think this needs clarifying a bit on my part 1, We were contacted about some DUKWS for sale 2, We were given the telephone number of the farmer 3, We rang the farmer to ask if these were being offered 4, We made an appointment to view 5, We visited said site on day and time arranged 6, We spoke to the farmer who told both of us they were for dissposal 7, We were told that no one had been in touch for over 6yrs 8, We viewed the vehicles and deceided they were to far gone 9, We spoke to the farmer on leaving and informed the scrap man was coming finally I am sure a lot more people have visited this site after being told about them coming for sale in fact as we got there in our recovery vehicle 2 people in a van were coming down the drive having been up to view them we were looking to get at least one for spares for our DUKW and to see if there was any other amphib bits for the SEEP and Stalwart which we have I posted in good faith as I was led to believe these were for sale for there scrap value estimated at £600 each Commander Thanks for posting an update... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rippo Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 (edited) Lee, The title of the post was edited last night, please don't treat me like an idiot, a saw it with my own eye's. :argh: Edited November 25, 2009 by rippo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Lee,The title was edited last night, please don't treat me like an idiot, a saw it with my own eye's. The title was changed in the early hours of this morning, but what does it matter when the title was changed?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Whoa folks hold hard!! Why are we ripping into each other? :stop: Information is the vehicles are there. So if someone can find out what the position concerning ownership is, great! The Moderator's and ALL members of the forum have a duty, and the curtesey of friendship, not to bring ourselves as individuals, the Forum or the world of MV's and re-enactments into disrepute. All friends have arguments, part of the game. Let's head for the bar and sort things out. Peace on this place! :flowers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50 cal ( † RIP † ) Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 peole are ripping into each other because there ARE always two sides to every story and perhaps one side asusual is being cast aside as if it doesnt matter i for one know that if something is said on here and it doesnt agree with the ones in the know it will be deleted IVE HAD STUFF DELETED IN THE PAST but isnt this a FORUM AH YES PEOPLE COME ON AND DISCUSS THINGS and oh yes not everyone will agree with each other we are not all here to agree with whatever said by whoever so lets not forget its a forum two sides two opinions and they both SHOULD be aired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rippo Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I'm not ripping in to anyone. I just don't like to be made to look stupid on a public forum. The title of this thread was changed before 12, i was in bed by 12. I'm not bothered when it was changed, its lee thats brought that point up, and is contradicting what i've posted earlier. why? I thought it was heavy handed how quickly it was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50 cal ( † RIP † ) Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 hi safari youve just sent me a pm i am not embarresed by what i had deleted and i looked into why aswell so if you want to put it on the forum thats fine by me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
private mw Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 what biscuits do you want at W&P 2010 jack :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 hi safari youve just sent me a pm i am not embarresed by what i had deleted and i looked into why aswell so if you want to put it on the forum thats fine by me I asked you in a PM so we can look at it & it has nothing to do with this thread, if you want to pm me what was deleted we will look at the logs & give you an explanation. At the moment I have no idea what was deleted Jack has asked me to lock the thread until he returns as the recent posts have nothing to do with this thread, any questions to PM please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 (edited) For goodness sake. AGAIN. Thanks go to Chris for the clarity - the bottom line is that they are in hand/save/taken care of. This is the bigger picture - isn't it? Secondly -if anyone has an issue of how I run HMVF then talk to me - directly. I am god foresaken bored with my main moderator taking the cr*p from people because I ask him to be in the front line. I do this because it works and it makes HMVF run smoothly. If you do not like MY rules then leave. I would not enter your house and then start to tell you what I like and what I don't like. How you should bring up your kids, get on with your neighbours, pay your bills or how you decorate your front room. This place would be anarchy if it wasn't for mods. We have had our fair share of people trying their best to undermine it and it hasn't happened. What you may have to understand is that if we screw up here HMVF could be shut - for good and that would be a loss to the hobby. Just get back on topic please.......... Edited November 26, 2009 by Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rambo1969 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Here we go again....... I think people are more upset about the way certain things are said, rather than what is said. When I 1st read this thread last night, I knew there would be an arguement........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Yes but this is a forum with adults and you can read whatever is said in the worst possible way or try and look at it in a different light. Lately, it seems, some things being said by certain people are only looked at from the worst possible angle. Face to face conversations would work a lot better and then you can look at peoples faces to see how they mean what they say. However since it is not possible for each and every one of us to meet every night we have this forum as a substitute. It isn't perfect and things happen that upset people but by god it's the only thing we've got! Please please please try to look at posts made in a different light too and try and not jump to conclusions. We are all here for fun and to have a good time, it seems we forget that every now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 OK - lets just get this squared up What I am going to do is put the thread title to how it was posted by Chris. Then Lee can go and study copy write as we do need to know the in and out of that. And just to acknowledge Rambo's point and just to confirm that Lee does always put the interests of HMVF first - but may say it in a way that is not agreeable to everyone.........but he is working on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 What I see on some forums are honest misunderstandings. In a real conversation bodylanguage, tone of voice or gestures make it clearer of what is meant. So its easy to misunderstand each other. Offcourse sometimes people get rubbed the wrong way, understandable. Thing is to stay friendly even if you're a bit ticked off...yes that's sometimes difficult. I know because I can be a very annoying man at times. Lee has the interests of the forum at heart, but he does make mistakes or even gets a bit upset, just human. The members can misunderstand or plainly disagree, make mistakes or overlook things. I don't like or want to take sides. But keep in mind its hard to know what info is correct. Were they for sale? Who said it? Did he maybe say something else to others or changed his mind? Copyright and ownership disputes can cloud the discussion. Trying to mediate/moderate between conflicting statements is difficult. 2 people can be right at the same time depending on the info they use as a basis of the discussion. So, please try to understand each others views and feelings. Playing hard is ok when you play fair. Sorry for getting involved, PM me if anybody wants me to stay out of it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpu121265 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Without wishing to either get shot, or re-ignite anything. I can assure you that DUKWMAN is not a crank (any more than any of us MV owners, or would be MV Owners are, and to that extent i am a multiple and serial crank). He is a pal of mine and was shocked to find that these vehicles had been offered for sale, as he did buy them, and as he has posted, is in the process of recovering all that he can of them. Perhaps, what we should focus on in the light of this thread, is that at least this way, he has discovered that vehicles which belonged to him were being offered for sale. I would suggest that's a good, powerful and positive thing. Had that not been the case, he may have returned to the site, with his recovery gear, and found it empty! Remember the thread about the vehicles stolen in Belgium which resulted in an APB - i understand they were recovered at a border in Eastern Europe somewhere, but at least several hundred people were looking out for them, people who would understand what they were looking at or for - whilst i would be sick if any of my vehicles were stolen, i would find some shred of hope in the fact that readers and contributors to this forum would be on the look out for them.... Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoggyDriver Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 These DUKW's are obviously owned by somebody. That person must have the bill of sale surely, to prove they are his property? If they have been left on this farm for years, then how long do they remain their before the farmer can claim ownership? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) These DUKW's are obviously owned by somebody. That person must have the bill of sale surely, to prove they are his property? If they have been left on this farm for years, then how long do they remain their before the farmer can claim ownership? Never, if he has agreed to let someone put them there, then he has a duty of care to look after them for that person, as if they were his own. He cannot dispose of them, sell them, or scrap them. The Law says he has to continue to look after them, for that person, to the best of his ability. (or so I understand it, personal viewpoint expressed here ) I think this topic has been examined already somewhere else on this forum. Edited November 26, 2009 by antarmike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) Antarmike Again a personal viewpoint, I tended to believe the same as antarmike until I was corrected by a friend of mine whose husband had left an early MG in wreck condition in the garage of his former rented property on the understanding with the owner that he could pay rent on the garage until such time as he could relocate it. Time passed (in excess of 15years) the owner of the property wanted to sell the property, preferably without the MG wreck in the garage but my friends husband was no where to be found (he had de-camped to North America) but was still paying the by then nominal rent yearly by post (£3 a year!) without of course a return address. By this time the owner of the house took legal advice, in brief it was classified as abandonment of property on the basis that the original agreement was moot as it is classified as an unreasonable contract and was therefore unenforceable. The property owner was required to place a legal notice in a national newspaper and advise a known relative of the owner of the vehicle of the intent to have the vehicle removed and scrapped and after a reasonable lapse of time it was scrapped. Scrapping was the only option as it would be impossible to re-register the vehicle with the DVLA without the consent of the former owner. In the last ten years I have seen a similar procedure used to dispose derelict vehicles from refurbishment properties where the last owner of the vehicle could not be found. Steve Edited November 26, 2009 by steveo578 spelling grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 In the last ten years I have seen a similar procedure used to dispose derelict vehicles from refurbishment properties where the last owner of the vehicle could not be found. Steve There seems to be a difference here in as much as the farmer appears to know who the owner is, and has been in fairly recent contact with him. Also if there was no rent agreement in the first place, (i don't know whether this is the case or not), and if the initial agreement was an open ended invitation to store the vehicles on the land (again I don't know wether that is the case) then should the farmer now feel he wants rid of said vehicles, I cannot see he can do so without reference back to the original owner, who may in this case not be behaving unreasonably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 QUOTE] Antarmike then should the farmer now feel he wants rid of said vehicles, I cannot see he can do so without reference back to the original owner, who may in this case not be behaving unreasonably. You make some interesting and valid points, It would be perfectly reasonable for the land owner to end a casual agreement at any time and demand that the other parties property is removed in a reasonable period of time, if the parties cannot agree what is reasonable then it may be necessary to involve a court. Only the two parties know what has been said, but as the vehicle owner has "enjoyed" the use of the land for 6years? and if it was without a rental agreement or lease I would imagine the court would not be regarding the land owner as unreasonable. However I do not think it would be reasonable for the land owner to unilaterally dispose of some-one elses property as this could change the matter from civil to criminal law especially in the case of a motor vehicle. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 There could be another problem here as it is now illegal for a farmer to have scrap vehicles on his land, perhaps this may have something to do with the apparent differences of opinion ie a way of putting on pressure to get the vehicles moved as the farmer may be afraid of action being taken against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 In either case I fail to see how there would be a duty upon the land owner to take care of the vehicles. The best he could be expected to do would be to watch them slowly deteriorate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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