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Mystery Object No.127

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Going along a Clive theme, FV4010 with the Malkara?

 

 

Yes, well done Wayne!

 

Good deduction & research knowing my tendancies. It is officially:

FV4010 Heavy Tank Destroyer GW Carrier

Here it is with missile at the ready.

 

thing01.jpg

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No idea then, have to leave it to the experts now, where are you Richard?

 

 

2 minutes behind!

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Never seen even a drawing of one, let alone a photo, it was only when trawling the Centurion variants that I tripped over it. Agree that including the Malkara might have been a bit of an early clue though :)

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Well done Wayne, never heard of that, but there again I'd never heard of Malkara, Orange William and a host of other things that Clive is so expert on.:-D

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2 minutes behind!

has the dog had his day, or maybe hes suffering from flu :-D

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I was going to post the link to the article on HMVF where I have done a tarted up drawing, but the link is dead.

 

Anyway this Cent was to weigh 46 tons & was the competitor to the FV426 Orange William Launcher. Neither were air-portable, which is where Hornet FV1620 came in being designed to launch OW but with the capability for Malkara, which won out in the end.

 

Here is a design sketch of the FV4010.

 

Cent03.jpg

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has the dog had his day, or maybe hes suffering from flu :-D

 

Probably resting on his laurels (dont mention Hardy) amid the glow of all his successes

or maybe hes won the lottery and b......d off to his mates in Aus and left us to face the winter while he lounges in the sun

Edited by Degsy

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or maybe hes won the lottery and b......d off to his mates in Aus and left us to face the winter while he lounges in the sun

 

 

I wish .................bloody rain today was horizontal :(

 

actually, boredom set in yesterday, and now Clive's MO's are all in one place, I went through them, and to date I have got 43 right, so plenty of room for a challenge :-D

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I wish .................bloody rain today was horizontal :(

 

actually, boredom set in yesterday, and now Clive's MO's are all in one place, I went through them, and to date I have got 43 right, so plenty of room for a challenge :-D

has t your shed got doors ? and you have got 43 more than me, still i live in hope that i might win one day, or come close come to that

 

regards

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has t your shed got doors ? and you have got 43 more than me, still i live in hope that i might win one day, or come close come to that

 

regards

 

Graham,

 

Doors, yes.......rain comes under them when travelling horizontally :(

 

and those MO's started in 2006, so had a head start, I will give you the nod on the next one, if I have a clue that is :confused:

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Is it a multiple rocket launch vehicle?

 

But Malkara was a rocket and the launcher was capable of a re-load:cool2:

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But Malkara was a rocket and the launcher was capable of a re-load:cool2:

 

No Malkara, was a guided weapon not a rocket. A rocket is projected at a target & therefter uncontrolled.:)

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No Malkara, was a guided weapon not a rocket. A rocket is projected at a target & therefter uncontrolled.:)

A rocket can be guided or unguided. Malkara fits the definition of a rocket.

 

I would hate to be an astronaut in a rocket and think that as I left Earth, I wasn't being guided!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket

If it is powered by a rocket motor, then it is a rocket, whether or not it is guided.

 

A rocket is defined as (concise Oxford English dictionary for those who don't like Wiki)

1 a cylindrical projectile that can be propelled to a great height or distance by the combustion of its contents > a MISSILE or Spacecraft propelled by the same principle.

 

Missiles can be Unguided or Guided, (although modern military usage of the word almost universally is accepted as a device that is guided). The earliest missiles, were not really guided, in the sense that the V1 and the V2 used gyroscopes to keep them flying on auto pilot, but although very definitely missiles both were very good at missing their intended targets, because there was no "Feedback loop" to monitor their actual position and to correct drift.

 

A V1's target was determined by where the launch ramp pointed, and in not really any more guided than a shell that goes in the direction the gun barrel is pointed! To be guided there has to be something more complicated than running out of fuel, and dropping from the sky!

Flying into a headwind it would not travel as far as it would with a tailwind, so really it was pot luck who had their day ruined.

 

 

Missile is defined as ((Concise Oxford Dictionary again)

1 an object which is forcibly propelled at a target.

2 Weapon that is self propelled OR directed by remote control.

 

Missile is derived from an adjective and actually means "suitable for throwing" and ultimately comes from the Latin for "send"

 

Malkara is both a rocket and a missile.

 

Equally a rock thrown from a trebuchet is a missile..http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/missile(definition 2 says stones, bullets, artillery shells and rockets are missiles)

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rocket (definition 2)

Edited by antarmike

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No Malkara, was a guided weapon not a rocket. A rocket is projected at a target & therefter uncontrolled.:)

 

There is a range of information on wiki put there by a range of people. I have the 'honour' of having pics of two of my vehicles on there illustrating two different types of vehicle. Sadly the associated text is largely incorrect, so I don't have a great deal of confidence in everything I see there.

 

It is true that the motor of a guided weapon is sometimes referred to as a rocket motor, but that does not then make the guided weapon a rocket. We are in the UK & defining a type of weapon system that was used by the British Army. I am happy to accept the definition given by R.G.Lee O.B.E. who was the Military Director of Studies at the Royal Military College of Science, Shrivenham.

 

App1552-1.jpg

 

App1551.jpg

 

App1553-1.jpg

 

App1554.jpg

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Good arguements from both sides; can we agree on 'launch vehicle'?:)

 

Or just what it says on the FVRDE/RARDE tin.

 

FV4010 Heavy Tank Destroyer GW Carrier :)

 

Notice it doesn't say Malkara, which makes me think it may have had an Orange William option if FV426 didn't progress. But in the end it was Orange William that didn't progress. Like so many UK developments we gave it up & bought a foreign thing!

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There is a range of information on wiki put there by a range of people. I have the 'honour' of having pics of two of my vehicles on there illustrating two different types of vehicle. Sadly the associated text is largely incorrect, so I don't have a great deal of confidence in everything I see there.

 

It is true that the motor of a guided weapon is sometimes referred to as a rocket motor, but that does not then make the guided weapon a rocket. We are in the UK & defining a type of weapon system that was used by the British Army. I am happy to accept the definition given by R.G.Lee O.B.E. who was the Military Director of Studies at the Royal Military College of Science, Shrivenham.

 

 

 

I too have reervations about Wiki which is why I quoted the Concise Oxford English dictionary to back up the point made in Wiki, and also quoted Merriam - Webster. Maybe as Oxford is in agreement with my point Wiki has got it right this time?

I entirely agree with this in strict military parlance, but in general terms, in the English language as spoken by the majority of the English speaking inhabitants of the UK Malkara is a rocket or a guided missile, or a guided weapon.

 

That is why I posted thus "Missiles can be Unguided or Guided, (although modern military usage of the word almost universally is accepted as a device that is guided). "

 

A rocket, as an unguided weapon, is probably better descibed as a "rocket porojectile" to differentiate it from other forms of rocket, (military missile, space launch system, RATO etc)

 

The underwing rocket weapons seen on wartime Typhoons, Beaufighters, Mosquitos etc were generally referred to "rocket projectiles" not just "rockets"

 

I know this is a military vehicle forum, and such a technical military definition has its place, it is also an English language based message board, and in the English language, as it is widely used Malkara is a rocket. It is not a "rocket projectile". It is a missile, a guided missile and a guided weapon.

 

I may be having a bit of a grumble but I am frustrated by the general inability of some message board users to use English correctly, to mispell even the simplest of words, and to use phrases and expressions in such a way as to show they don't really know what the phrase means or how it originated.

 

Recently we have had "worm" used for warm ( ie a temperature between hot and cold.) That isn't worm, worm is an animal that wiggles around underground! Then there is repeated use of "wet ones appetite", when the phrase is "whet ones appetite". The list of misused words seems endless.

 

And rocket is another term I feel is being misused because most dictionary definitions of rocket, include military guided weapons. This is an English based message board, I just wish there was greater precision, so when a purely military use of the word is used, it should be made clear that the term is being used purely in a military sense, not as the word exists and is used in the real world.

 

Incidentaly Clive I find your use of English one of the best on the board, and I know exactly what you mean. Yes I am being pedantic, but that is what grumpy old men do. And yes I am guilty of double standards because I know I often use cos instead of because, and I put multiple exclamation marks at the end of a lot of my posts and that isn't allowed in English!!!!!!

Edited by antarmike

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I may be having a bit of a grumble but I am frustrated by the general inability of some message board users to use English correctly, to mispell even the simplest of words, and to use phrases and expressions in such a way as to show they don't really know what the phrase means or how it originated.

 

Recently we have had "worm" used for warm ( ie a temperature between hot and cold.) That isn't worm, worm is an animal that wiggles around underground! The is repeated use of "wet ones appetite", when the phrase is "whet ones appetite". The list of misused words seems endless.

 

 

 

I agree with much of that Mike and I wonder how long it will be before someones blames it on dyslexia!

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Recently we have had "worm" used for warm ( ie a temperature between hot and cold.) That isn't worm, worm is an animal that wiggles around underground!

 

And there was little old me thinking a worm was either a virus or a almost obsolete form of storage media...

 

1) A type of computer virus

 

Just like regular worms tunnel through dirt and soil, computer worms tunnel through your computer's memory and hard drive. A computer worm is a type of virus that replicates itself, but does not alter any files on your machine. However, worms can still cause havoc by multiplying so many times that they take up all your computer's available memory or hard disk space. If a worm consumes your memory, your computer will run very slowly and possibly even crash. If the worm affects your hard disk space, your computer will take a long time to access files and you will not be able to save or create new files until the worm has been eradicated.

 

Worms are hard to detect because they are typically invisible files. They often go unnoticed until your computer begins to slow down or starts having other problems. Unlike viruses and Trojan horses, worms can replicate themselves and travel between systems without any action from the user. For these reasons, it is good to have an antivirus program installed on your system that can detect and remove worms before they have a chance to replicate or spread to other computers. Security updates such as Windows Update also patch security holes that allow worms to infect your computer. So keep your security updates and virus definitions up-to-date and you should be able to keep your computer worm-free.

 

2) An optical storage technology

 

WORM can also mean "Write Once, Read Many." It is an optical storage technology that allows a disc to be written only once but read an unlimited number of times. WORM devices were introduced in the 1970's and gained popularity as a way of archiving data. The storage capacity of WORM discs began around 140MB, but increased to more than 3.0GB over the past few decades. Yet the WORM technology has no standard format, so WORM discs are only compatible with the drives that wrote them. This limitation has kept WORM equipment relatively expensive and has kept the technology from gaining widespread acceptance.

 

Today, most optical drives are based on either CD-R or DVD-R technology. Unlike WORM discs, CD-Rs and DVD-Rs can typically be read by any CD or DVD drive, regardless of the manufacturer. Because of their improved compatibility and lower costs, writable CDs and DVDs have all but replaced WORM media.

 

:):) :rofl: :rofl: :):)

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Was that intended as an example or a typo?

exactly, it was misspelt and misspelled both at the same time.

 

And as a closing though as to what a rocket is, NASA are pretty clued up and authorative I would have thought and ARES 1-X is clearly called by them a Rocket, and is equally clearly, guided.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/ares/flighttests/aresIx/index.html

Edited by antarmike

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And there was little old me thinking a worm was either a virus or a almost obsolete form of storage media...

 

 

 

:):) :rofl: :rofl: :):)

 

And Rocket is also a "b0ll0cking", and a plant, and a....

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My posts seem to be attracting criticism on two counts.

 

Firstly I am being criticised for not using everyday language as spoken by the general public. I was merely using the terminology of the manufacturer & the user of the weapon system, the British Army. If I had indicated that the GW launcher was a multiple rocket launcher I would, with some justification, be criticised by someone for being misleading & wrong. Those who do win through with near enough the correct answer, I imagine derive satisfaction from their achievement.

 

Surely if we are to adopt the general public’s view of military terminology then we are all driving round in Jeeps?

 

Secondly there is a general attack on the poor use of the English language, in terms of spelling, grammar & punctuation. I have sympathy to some degree with that & notice that perhaps not all of us are as gifted as others in terms of writing skills. I am only too aware of this myself as I am significantly dyslexic. It takes several attempts at draft posts before I can make something vaguely intelligible. So posts from ‘Borat’ are second nature & are almost ready created! But I don’t see why this thread is being used to raise this criticism about inaccurate English particularly when what I described was actually very accurate!

 

Although the British Dyslexia Association regard dyslexia as a ‘gift’ rather than an affliction, I have to say it is a damn nuisance & writing anything for me takes about 3 times longer than a ‘normal’ person. So the writing of an article will often take in excess of 100 hours.

 

I have seen so many posts that go & on & on consuming vast amounts of time, adrenaline & perspiration with arguments that assume disproportionate importance. So often I see someone stuck in the situation that if he rises to the bait he is criticised or if he does not he also criticised.

 

Like many spectators I try to ‘keep my head down’ & avoid the flak when I see these threads surface. But now this one has landed on my plate, when I don’t feel I have done anything wrong. These mystery objects are meant to unearth unusual items & provide a bit of fun as well. There doesn’t seem to be much fun with this anymore. I can’t feel much enthusiasm for playing these games, if I worry that it’s going to give rise to all this sort of conflict.

 

I have seen people on the receiving end of these endless posts who try to extricate themselves only to be drawn in again. I could go through the posts aimed at me criticising it line by line, but that will only provoke yet more posts. I am trying to extricate myself & hope I don’t get drawn in to further conflict.

 

I’m going now I have had a long day driving over 300 miles to collect Humber & Champ archives which I hope will provide a more relaxing evening.

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Mike, I think you should be criticising the education system in this country rather than the people who are doing their best to contribute to this forum. I understand it can irk those of us fortunate enough to have a fair command of what is a very difficult language (for a lot of reasons) but I don't think it fair to criticise and perhaps put off some posters who may well have a huge knowledge and ability but find difficulty with spelling and punctuation and yes I have heard about spell checkers but not every body (me included) finds it easy to use computers. Finally this is going to be my only post on this subject as I am not going to get involved in an ongoing discussion/argument.:-D

Edited by Degsy
Spelling

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