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alan turner (RIP)

Humber Pigs at the Woolwich Arsenal

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In my intro when I first joined I stated that I have been producing images for the Royal Arsenal Woolwich Historical Society from its uncatalogued thousands of negatives, they had been skipped then rescue took place.

 

I was asked to show some images of the pig production in Woolwich Arsenal from the early 1950's xo heres hoping these come out.

Humber Pigs BU5806 6 047a.jpg

Humber Pigs BU5806 7 048a.jpg

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Alan WOW! I thought I had died & gone to Piggy Heaven. What super archive stuff. Well done for saving it. Any more will be lapped up by the Pig community I'm sure.

 

Are there any written archives that indicate the numbers produced? As you know Nottingham & Sankey also made them. I've never been able to find out how many at each facility.

 

The highest Sankey serial number I have seen is S949. That struck me as rather high, as the total number of Pigs manufactured was 1,700. Suggesting Sankey made the highest proportion.

 

However I am assuming Sankey serialised them from S001. Maybe not & they started off higher. (Like Hitler was member no.55 of the National Socialist Party, but they started the membership number at 50!)

 

Thank you very much for posting those.

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Alan WOW! I thought I had died & gone to Piggy Heaven. What super archive stuff. Well done for saving it. Any more will be lapped up by the Pig community I'm sure.

 

 

 

You beat me to it Clive... great stuff more please :-D

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thanks guys these are scans of glass plates that were salvaged and its guesswork as to the exact date taken plates in 5806 range but do know that a view 4029 of 2 matadors was taken 15/2/1951. so its after that. Lets have a couple more.

U4008 05a.jpg

1601 Pig K5694a.jpg

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You beat me to it Clive... great stuff more please :-D

 

See what I mean Alan, you've definitely done the right thing posting those!

 

When I looked at the top one, at first I thought it was crates of beer on the right, but they must be Tracta joints.

 

Now are those the new Chobham joint replacements waiting to go in or the old Tractas being withdrawn? Or are they the front Tractas waiting to go back in, because the original vehicles seemed to be completely stripped down?

 

I can see a chassis pile, I think that now have the rear extensions fitted. I hadn't realised the donor vehicles were completely pulled apart I always imagined that the engines at least remained fitted.

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So wonderful to see an ERM as well!

 

27 BK 00 was struck off from BAOR on 25/10/67

 

Too much excitement for one day, I must go & get a drink.

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Which building do you reckon Alan? Will be away next week , but will try after to get time to work on K3 , and the Quad if asked.

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Those are excellent pictures Alan! any pictures of Pigs when in service are quite rare, (i know i spend alot of time searching, which is how i came across your website!) but photos from the production line are really the hens teeth, and very informative, the production methods employed etc, marvellous stuff.

Thank you for posting this.

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Does anyone know where the Pigs were up-armoured after PIRA started using tungsten-tipped rounds ?

 

34 Central Workshops Donnington

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I like the picture of the shop floor showing the armoured bodies in panel form, the chap appears to be working on the inner engine bay panels, with the cutouts for the bolt on access panels.

 

And to his right are the rear side body panels in flat and then bent form, showing them with the hatch holes cut, and half a wheel arch cut in them. There are stacks of recognisable panel bits when you start looking!

Copy of Humber%20Pigs%20BU5806%207%20048a.jpg

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there are those that say that the panels were supplied by Sankey's but that I doubt as ROF(W) easily had the ability to produce its own, but on the up armour period was too involved in producing the prototype FV432's. Lets throw a few more in that Clive has already got through several boxes of tissues once seen.

 

Please remember that the photographer believed to be a mr Charles Elliot had climbed up to the crane runway not with a little SLR but with a large wooden, leather bellows glass plate camera, Tripod and a large box of plates to useand cape. Still around aged 91 living in the Sevenoaks area

Humber Pigs BU5806 8  049.jpg

Humber Pigs BU5806 7 048.jpg

Humber Pigs BU5806 3 044.jpg

Humber Pigs BU5806 4 045.jpg

Humber Pigs BU5806 5 046.jpg

1601 Pig K7936.jpg

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there are those that say that the panels were supplied by Sankey's but that I doubt as ROF(W) easily had the ability to produce its own, but on the up armour period was too involved in producing the prototype FV432's. Lets throw a few more in that Clive has already got through several boxes of tissues once seen.

 

Please remember that the photographer believed to be a mr Charles Elliot had climbed up to the crane runway not with a little SLR but with a large wooden, leather bellows glass plate camera, Tripod and a large box of plates to useand cape. Still around aged 91 living in the Sevenoaks area

 

Boxes of tissues? No I'm on the kitchen roll with this lot!

 

Hats of to Charles (no relation) good old fashioned crisp & detailed photography.

 

I had always believed Sankey & ROF produced their own components rather than a kit of parts being supplied by Sankey. Not only, as you say ROF have adequate facilities, but there are characteristics in two of the armour components that can be used to differentiate between a Sankey or a ROF Pig.

 

Also in early Sankey Pigs there was a different design of catch mechanism on the firing ports, if they were supplied in a kit of parts then some would have been seen on ROF Pigs.

 

The chassis is interesting. Clearly it doesn't yet have the small section framework to support the floor nor the rear chassis extension pieces that are needed to be added to the GS chassis to support the Pig body.

 

So this would suggest it is GS chassis stripped down prior to Pig conversion. Interestingly the engine is light in colour ie inevitable Sky Blue. I am not sure whether a repaint was part of the Pig make over. But the pictures I have seen of engines of the prototype Pig (ie FV1609) were black, I strongly suspect all B Series engines as supplied from the manufacturer were black.

 

I note the dynamo has been removed. Both Generator No.1 & No.2 were used on the original GS truck & both were fitted to the Pigs depending if it was APC or FFW. So I don't see why it was removed, unless the engine was given a complete strip down or overhaul & the ancilleries are still being refitted. If that was the case a repaint would have been in order.

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So silly question if you had the lifting gear could you lift the whole shell off the chassis?

 

jamie

 

Yes, I'm sure thats what they did.

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Yes, I'm sure thats what they did.

 

 

That building has a travelling gantry crane running along it, so moving hulls / bodies is no problem.

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"Please remember that the photographer believed to be a mr Charles Elliot had climbed up to the crane runway not with a little SLR but with a large wooden, leather bellows glass plate camera, Tripod and a large box of plates to useand cape. Still around aged 91 living in the Sevenoaks area"

 

Hats off to Mr Charles Elliot, very good pictures, and thanks to you Alan for getting them into digital format, alot of work but much appreciated, not just on this but the other threads you have posted, i am sure there are others in agreement with this sentiment.

Edited by Marmite!!
quote tags added

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thanks to you Alan for getting them into digital format, alot of work but much appreciated, not just on this but the other threads you have posted, i am sure there are others in agreement with this sentiment.

 

Hear, hear! Alan wonderful being able to see not just in service pics, but pics of the Pigs at the point of conception as it were.

 

Archive pictures with all the detail, including the surroundings, are so historically fascinating. It is good that someone is finding this materiel AND sharing it with others who appreciate it.

 

I have nothing against these MV mags you can buy off the shelf. I find that most of what you can see is available to see oneself at large shows anyway. Occasionally I will buy one if it has a even a few archive pics of a subject that interests me. Considering the millions of official pics taken over the years, only a small proportion will have been saved & most of us will only see a tiny part of those even.

 

Wouldn't it be wonderful to have a MV archive monthly? I'd sign up to a lifetime subscription! Just think of titles like FVRDE Monthly! Wow!

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Wouldn't it be wonderful to have a MV archive monthly? I'd sign up to a lifetime subscription! Just think of titles like FVRDE Monthly! Wow!

 

Clive,

Just like Wheels & Tracks then, a lot of unseen archive materiel as well as present time photos........this format has never been achieved with the subsequent mv magazines that have evolved.

 

Alan's photo find is remarkable, a bit like those found showing Pearsons of Liverpool war work, assembling and rebuilding MV's, which were made into a book.

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