mac_xpert Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 I'm interested to hear if anyone has any experiance of the BMP-1 or any variants? I am considering getting one over a 432 or CVR(T). - Something a bit different. The obvious concern is spares and knowledge / manuals for these vehicles. Anyone here own one? Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Neil (Artists Rifles) on here runs an OT90, which is a BMP1 variant I believe. I think he's also maybe looking to sell, could be worth a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fadedsun Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Neil (Artists Rifles) on here runs an OT90, which is a BMP1 variant I believe. I think he's also maybe looking to sell, could be worth a PM. Ot90 is just a bmp1 with a different turret and gun-14.5mm vs 73mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Ot90 is just a bmp1 with a different turret and gun-14.5mm vs 73mm Close - but no coconut - you just failed vehicle recognition!! There are a few more differences than just a turret swap - suspension changes for starters. The OT has shockers on the second pair of road wheels too - just to name but one... To answer the original questions: One will set you back a lot more than a 432 -but you get more for your money. Average prices for a 432 is around the £9K mark and likely will need some work still to be done. Average price for a BMP/OT is around £15K but - in the case of the OT's no work needs to be done as the Czech Gov't had the whole fleet refurbished just before selling them off!! Maintenance is much less of an issue than on the 432. Most of the lubricant points use straight engine oil. Tracks do not need adjusting anywhere near as often. To work on the engine all you do is unbolt the relevant top panels and unclip the internal ones. Much simpler than a 432 where the pack has to come out for some jobs. Driving - the BMP/OT is like driving a car - usual 3 pedals and the steering is by a tiller bar not unlike an aircraft's, push down on the side you want to turn. In high ration you get progressive steering (more you press the tighter the turn) whereas in low ratio you just get hard left/right turns only. Braking system is effective enough to stand the vehicle on it's nose from 40 KPH and those who saw it in the arena at W&P this year can likely testify to the efficacy of the combat turns. The BMP/OT is fully amphibious as it comes. No additional work is required to make it so. ALL the systems on board are 100% functional inc. NBC, smoke, fume extract and fire controls. Mine came with everything internal fitted into place - there are even belt links for the 7.62 and 14.5mm ammo in the ammo trays. Radios in these vehicles work on (or cover) the UK's legal CB frequencies so they can be used without upsetting OFCOM and getting the vehicle impounded. Aerials are in 4 sections - only use the first 3 unless you like getting whacked on the head when stopping...... The system will work with reduced range on a 3 section installation (so I am told). Spares aren't really a problem, it just takes a bit longer to get them - there are a couple of major suppliers who can order them in for you (Russian Military or Tanks-For-Sale). Only real problem apart from the bits that go "bang" when the gunner pulls the trigger is the actual engine. The UDT-20 is still designated as in-service apparently so a new engine will hit you for £60K - about 4 times what you will pay for a base vehicle from a UK supplier. It pays to remember the crank has to be floated by the oil prime switch before using either the electric or air start systems. Manuals are available either from eBay occasionally or from either of the two dealers mentioned. Someone who speaks the language of the country the vehicle comes from would be useful at the start too - to translate the switch and control labels for you. Any other questions or if you would like to have a look at mine - feel free to ask!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Neil forgot to mention that you probably won't be able to road register one, which may be an issue if you want to go anywhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 (edited) Neil forgot to mention that you probably won't be able to road register one, which may be an issue if you want to go anywhere! Quite right sir - also that talking to both VOSA and the DVLA is a total waste of money and breath as their operatives do not know a damned thing about the rules and reg's stipulated by the agencies paying them (no doubt) excessively large salaries with armoured pensions...... :argh: :argh: :argh: Back on topic - perhaps no worse than if one were to go for heavier armour though - at least the OT does just over 4.5 mpg. Not a bad saving at W&P compared to the Stollys 2.5 mpg....... Not enough to off-set the low-loader costs though before anyone else says it!!. And taking to some ex-pat friends over in the US recently the question was asked out there "how long before anything VOSA doesn't like (read the PM for the sake of the question as he pulls VOSA's strings) gets banned from the roads - inc. FV-6xx series vehicles, 432's etc??" Edited September 2, 2009 by ArtistsRifles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 "how long before anything VOSA doesn't like (read the PM for the sake of the question as he pulls VOSA's strings) gets banned from the roads - inc. FV-6xx series vehicles, 432's etc??" Be a lot less likely they'll outlaw vehicles already registered and in use unless there are proven to be major safety issues with them. Where would they draw the line? Tracked vehicles... what about excavators? Vehicles over a certain age... what about all the vintage cars and tractors in use, not just for hobbies but as part of a business? Worst I can see is that they insist vehicles take some form of test and come closer to complying with a modern MOT, maybe some form of emmissions testing, but lets not encourage them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Pretty much what I said to the guys over in the USA. Great minds must think alike!! :yay: It has to said though, without venturing into he realms of the dreaded "P" word, that they view the current situation here in the UK in a VERY poor light..... :-( :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fadedsun Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Close - but no coconut - you just failed vehicle recognition!! There are a few more differences than just a turret swap - suspension changes for starters. The OT has shockers on the second pair of road wheels too - just to name but one... Any other questions or if you would like to have a look at mine - feel free to ask!! They explode just the same when hit by HEDP In my defense, I've never gotten to climb on one and examine it with tender loving care ! (If I was in the UK I would go by Russian truck with a drool cup and stare all day) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Trailer posts have been moved here http://www.hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=14521 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 They explode just the same when hit by HEDP In my defense, I've never gotten to climb on one and examine it with tender loving care ! (If I was in the UK I would go by Russian truck with a drool cup and stare all day) Missing a good time then One of the few tracked vehicles you can drive with one hand...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Missing a good time then One of the few tracked vehicles you can drive with one hand...... CVR(T)s can be driven quite easily one handed, after all you can only pull one tiller at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 yes i would like to get me a spartan at some stage...maybe next year if business is good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 CVR(T)s can be driven quite easily one handed, after all you can only pull one tiller at a time. Ah - but the BMP/OT only HAS one tiller effectively! Best description I've heard thus far was from one of the East German BMP crew who looked over mine at W&P this year - the driver said the steering was "like flying an aircraft only on tracks instead of wings"... I rather liked that...... Mind you -with a manual gearbox it has to be that way!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fadedsun Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 AAVs have a bow-tie shaped steering wheel, so you can recline the seat and cop your best "gangsta" look while rolling down the street and still be able to control the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) Similar then... Not enough room in the BMP/OT to recline the seat to do the gangsta thing (Commander sits immediately behind you). You can however, once the beast is rollling, set the hand throttle, pop yourself out of the hatch and steer with your feet quite easily. This is the hot seat for the OT-90: Lever centre and left of the "steering column" is the High/low range selector, lever to the rear and right is the gear shift Edited September 4, 2009 by ArtistsRifles Image added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fadedsun Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) Similar then... Not enough room in the BMP/OT to recline the seat to do the gangsta thing (Commander sits immediately behind you). You can however, once the beast is rollling, set the hand throttle, pop yourself out of the hatch and steer with your feet quite easily. This is the hot seat for the OT-90: Lever centre and left of the "steering column" is the High/low range selector, lever to the rear and right is the gear shift We have an engine throttle lever for use in water but we are instructed under no circumstances to ever, ever, ever even contemplate using it. It's apparently sunk a few vehicles, thus the importance of never using it. Although if we did we could drive the aav from outside the vehicle How much did yours set you back AR? Does the turret have a spot for you to ride on top like the bmp1? Edited September 4, 2009 by fadedsun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fadedsun Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Might I add..the title of this thread is a little misleading. IN Soviet Russia, BMP runs you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 We have an engine throttle lever for use in water but we are instructed under no circumstances to ever, ever, ever even contemplate using it. It's apparently sunk a few vehicles, thus the importance of never using it. Although if we did we could drive the aav from outside the vehicle How much did yours set you back AR? Does the turret have a spot for you to ride on top like the bmp1? Use of the hand throtle (really more of an engine speed control) won't cause the BMP/OT to sink - forgetting to close external valves or seal the rear doors will though! Look at the small TV screen below the R/H vision block, follow the large white pipe down and, just up from the base of the picture you'll see a black knob. This js the engine kill/idle speed control. Screw it in to kill the engine, screw it out to set idle speed. Pretty well conscript proof!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fadedsun Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Use of the hand throtle (really more of an engine speed control) won't cause the BMP/OT to sink - forgetting to close external valves or seal the rear doors will though! Look at the small TV screen below the R/H vision block, follow the large white pipe down and, just up from the base of the picture you'll see a black knob. This js the engine kill/idle speed control. Screw it in to kill the engine, screw it out to set idle speed. Pretty well conscript proof!! No, but I think it would cause the engine to drive the vehicle under water where it could enter the engine air intake and cause the engine to stall. These things have a way of getting stuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) No, but I think it would cause the engine to drive the vehicle under water where it could enter the engine air intake and cause the engine to stall. These things have a way of getting stuck. No - the drive and air systems are totally different to the US amphibs. Water drive is via the tracks - don't ask me how right now, all I know is it involves the track guards that have to be in place before deployment! The air inlet is a snorkel behind the turret that is raised pneumatically at the same time the swim vane is deployed. The main air intakes to the right of the Commander and in front of the turret is shut and sealed by a hand lever before immersion so that all air needs are supplied by the snorkel. Engine RPM's are kept up over 2000 on entry so the gas pressure keeps the water from flooding in there. If you do a search on the web there is a video clip of these vehicles being deployed in the amphibious role - by being driven off the banks at full speed........ The whole thing submerges on entry before popping up like a cork.... Not a job for the faint of heart I would think.. Some links to video of the type in action: http://www.military-today.com/apc/bmp1.htm It's easy to dismiss the BMP/OT class as old and obsolete -esp. when talking in terms of modern weapons - but before doing so bear these points in mind: The design was launched in 1967 - there was nothing else like it in the world at that time! Everything designed and built since then owes some part of it's design to the BMP-1 as it was effectively designed in response to it - be it the US Bradley, the UK 432, whatever... The design was so successful the BMP-2 and BMP-3 derivatives are still classed as active service vehicles in the primary users (Warsaw Pact as was) forces. The BMP-1 itself is still in active use around the globe in 3rd world countries - not many vehicle types can lay claim to have been in active service for over 42 years... Edited September 5, 2009 by ArtistsRifles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) The design was launched in 1967 - there was nothing else like it in the world at that time! Everything designed and built since then owes some part of it's design to the BMP-1 as it was effectively designed in response to it - be it the US Bradley, the UK 432, whatever... Neil, The FV430 series predates the launch date of BMP1 by a long way. The first prototype 432 was built in 1961, with development taking place in the late 1950's. Production started in 1962. Edited September 6, 2009 by Richard Farrant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 I understood the saracen to be the first Armoured Personnel Carrier...official deisgnation and the 432 the first tracked one...the Americans always seem to make the M113 as the first but they seem to have been launched about the same time...not sure of the actual truth of who did what first as the Americans of course did everything first.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Neil, The FV430 series predates the launch date of BMP1 by a long way. The first prototype 432 was built in 1961, with development taking place in the late 1950's. Production started in 1962. I understood the saracen to be the first Armoured Personnel Carrier...official deisgnation and the 432 the first tracked one...the Americans always seem to make the M113 as the first but they seem to have been launched about the same time...not sure of the actual truth of who did what first as the Americans of course did everything first.... Sorry folks - brain spasm there :sweat: - I meant Warrior (I think)! The 432 (and Saracen as Paul rightly says) are/were APC's whereas the BMP is/was an IFV. Bit of a fundamental difference!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I will drive BMP-1 next week and I'll see how much fun is it Most of opinions in this thread are actual, but I disagree about parts. A new BMP-1 engine could land on my desk tomorrow if I want It's just about contacts. Is that for a UTD-20? If so - how much would it be?? I was quoted 2 weeks from order to delivery - BUT -the cost for a new, crated unit was in the order of 60,000 - cannot recall now if that was Euro's or GBP - I think it was GBP. How about other spares?? You could make a nice living providing such a service to the OT and BMP owners here in the UK!! I know I would be VERY interested in a full tool kit and pioneer kit for mine. As for the fun - they really are - get one up to speed and it's as much fun as you can have in public without getting arrested!!! When taking a corner at speed be prepared to switch the tiller bar hard to the opposite lock as it goes into a power slide. And brace yourself on the bumps if driving with the seat elevated - it hurts when you whang your head on the hatch rim!! :rofl: :rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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