natra

Hi Pauline Yes this would be of great interest, its amazing that 80 years later stuff from one event between thousands of other life changing events are still coming to light

Its quite strange seeing a photo of the man who started the chain of events that changed so many lives

 

On 1/25/2020 at 3:59 PM, mikecsteer said:

The link I gave doesn't seem to be working any more, so here is a screenshot of the relevant page from the book:Heinrich Schlosser HMS Vandyke.pdf

Thanks for that, but the link worked fine for me, Its quite amazing seeing the man who actually sunk Vandyke, 

On 11/26/2019 at 12:35 AM, mikecsteer said:

Amazingly, I've just found a picture of the pilot who sank the Vandyck!  I suspected the plane in the paintings above, in http://hmvf.co.uk/profile/12052-almossah/ post was a Focke-Wulf Condor, and here's what I found:  https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=T7OhDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA10&lpg=PA10&dq=hms+vandyck&source=bl&ots=4GiIwDMW-Z&sig=ACfU3U2y-3Qxd9BDf2dtuPsFohxKsNTuFw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwij4875z4bmAhXJSsAKHSBOCfk4ChDoATAEegQIChAB#v=onepage&q=hms vandyck&f=false

Only just seen this, been busily on tour, then Christmas and then moved house, That is quite amazing, thank you for posting

 

19 hours ago, bigduke6 said:

Thats Interesting regarding the reserves, I mention not being at Sea long,  as most in the Junior Engineer Rank soon became 4th and 3rd Engineers, back then the Board of Trade exams were for Second and Chief Engineers...... so no certificate was needed for the junior ranks, although when discharged Sea service testimonials would be issued plus the Discharge Book stamped accordingly.

A lot of young lads when in there last year of Apprenticeship could finish it at Sea in some cases, also some straight out of there time, (like myself) went to Sea.

During the war tradesmen just under the maximum age of enlistment would probably remain in there trade as they were more valuable in that position, Some over the age and wanting to do something would volunteer for The Merchant Navy. 

You Grandfather being a Junior Engineer, this was a Merchant Navy Officer Rank, So When the the vessel come under the command of the RN he and the other crew would of been transferred to RNR or RNVR but would still receive his MN pay. 

As a POW there is probably a lot more you can find out though the National Archives.  Also try the Royal Navy as the Vessel was sunk and also being under the RN they would have crew lists etc.

Thanks for this, gives me more to check out, I have a copy of his POW interview on release,  I must spend some time going thru the National Archives, That's interesting about the Merchant Navy Rank, that would explain him being held in an officers POW camp for the duration.

7 hours ago, bigduke6 said:

What an Interesting thread, I started my career at Sea as a Junior Engineer after I completed my Apprenticeship as a Fitter & Turner in a shipyard, although this was in 1990 the Junior Engineer rank was generally from lads who had completed there Apprentice ship ashore in a shipyard or similar and went straight in the Merchant Navy as Junior Engineer. The only thing they need to  do was learn the running of the engine room as they already were Tradesman so knew how to use tools ext. 

Looking at the date of The Letter from the General Register and Record office of Shipping and Seaman I would guess he had not been at Sea long unless he had been a cadet ? The Address on the bottom is The Bungalow, Hightown , Nr Liverpool, this is now Formby but Hightown still exists ......... Altacar Rifle ranges are there. 

POW's were normally held in any nearest available camp until processed.

My Grandfather was in his  late 30s when he was on the Vandyk, he had been an engineer all his working life, I believe he was in navy reserves before the war and was then put into action when the war started

On 14/11/2017 at 4:08 PM, mikecsteer said:

 

During 1941-1942, some of the prisoners there were transferred to (and indeed, helped to build) Marlag und Milag Nord at Westertimke, about 15-20 miles away. 

My Grandfather must have spent the war with your father here then, as this is certainly from where he was liberated, he was promoted to an acting officer whilst a POW, no idea how that happened, but I have seen records stating this. 

 

 

That picture is so very like the one that I have posted on page 1 of this thread, brilliant

As A follow up to this I was contacted by a guy called Graham Blackwell

this is his Fathers experience after the Vandyke was sunk

 

Upon capture in the Lofoten Islands, the prisoners were taken by cattle

truck to Denmark and then by boat to a transit camp near Cuxhaven in

northern Germany.

It would appear that from there that the prisoners were split up.

My dad, along with some others were sent to Stalag VIIIB, workcamp BAB20

at Heydebreck in what is now part of Poland.

He was forced to work 10 hours a day building a motorway.

Towards the end of the war, as the Russians and Americans were

advancing, the camp was evacuated and so the famous Lamsdorf Death

Marches began.

He marched nearly 1400 miles, resting one day in four, fed on weak soup

and black bread and suffered the loss of all his teeth after being hit

in the mouth with a rifle butt.

He was rescued by the Americans 50 miles shy of Nuremburg.

 

I tried many times to get my dad to reminisce but whilst he mentioned

the humurous incidents such as stealing from the guards to make costumes

to put on plays, he

never talked about the darker things.

I do know that those 5 years changed him from being a loveable scouse

rogue to a somewhat reticent intropsective man but he was well liked and

over 100 people

attended his funeral in 1993.

 

My dad was Eric William Blackwell (1912-1993) and he was assistant

steward on the VanDyck from 17th June 1939 (originally signed on as

assistant pantryman!)

He was a POW until 23rd April 1945 and discharged on 18th September 1945.

He had been a merchant seaman since 1930 after running away from home

apart from a break when he worked as a waiter at Lyons Coffee House at

Marble Arch in London.

http://www.pegasusarchive.org/pow/S344/BAB20/PicSt_344_Bab20Stroud35.htm hi father is the tall guy with a tie on

Just a little update to this thread,

I now have My Grandfathers Arctic Star took some getting, but it is now proudly displayed at home

There were also some naval volunteers that came onboard some days before, my father was one of them. In effect surely the whole operation at Narvik was a decoy for the evacuation.

 

Iain

Its all interesting stuff, I bet Lamport & Holt were impressed their Top cruise liner was being used for that, Sadly I never met my grandfather as he died in '57, so never really got more info than he was an engineer and on board, when sunk, and no info as to anyone else on board

Fantastic stuff. Great piece of research. It's unlikely that she was a 'decoy' but something like the Van Dyck would have been a plumb target for the Stuka's as she would have had very little in the way of AA armament.

I think you are right, it certainly wasn't well armed, it was a cruise liner which was loaded with a WW1 gun and called an armed merchantman!. Three marines were put on board and the crew issued with naval uniforms, It was bombed on 9th June, which set it on fire, it was abandoned and sunk on 10th June 1940

 

The HMS Vandyck looks to be a big ship to be used as a "boarding vessel" with what was a small crew and with some grand rooms etc. No doubt not so grand when in RN service, except maybe the officers quarters.

 

Iain

Depending on what you read it is either classed as a boarding vessel, or an Armed Merchant cruiser, it was a fairly big ship, as it was previously a cruise liner accommodating 650 passengers

They must have been toghether, at least in the begining ! He was forever gratefull for the kindness shown by the locals in the Lofoton islands. Another place he mentioned was Eisenach (I think) which was strong is his memory.

 

I just remember fragments from his reminiscing, such as working on road gangs and doing some work on a chemical plant as he was a chemical plumber etc. And some positive and not so positive memories of his fellow prisoners (Especially the officers) best not repeated.

He also mentioned being in the same camp as Douglas Badder at one time (?), said he was not so popular with other prisoners as he kept dropping them all in the cr@p each time be tried to escape.

 

Iain

On board the Vandyck was a certain Walter Purdy who became known as the Colditz Traitor http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/1941694.quiet_man_of_thundersley_was_the_colditz_traitor/

One of the reasons your father may have beeen on the road gangs is that there were two POW camps at Marlag Ind Milag Nord , Westertimke (Tarmstedt). they were not actually completed when prisoners were taken there, so the prisoners had to literally build their own prison, one was for merchant seamen, who under the genevre convention, should have been repatriated, but were instead eventually put in the camp built for non combatant civilliams, even though they were under royal navy command. the germans did at one time offer to do a prisoner swap of merchant seamen, but Churchill refused, reason being he thought that if the german ones were released they would be pressed into crewing U Boats and warships,

Thanks for that !

My father and one of his brothers were on a larger RN ship when they asked for volunteers, they both remembered his brother belting him when he volunteered to go to the Vandyck. In their memory it was to be used as a decoy, maybe a bitter memory, but then would the RN admit this ? He remembered a Stuka bombing them !

My father would not talk much of his experiences until later years and he mentioned having to get away from the advancing Soviets, he was in eastern Poland. I looked up "Forces war Record" and he is noted as a POW at Stalag 344 Lamsdorf but I know that over the years he had been at a few camps including one adjacent to Auchwitz where they could see what was going on. I have a tankard marked "Stalag V11 Kreigsweihnacht 1940" and my mother has a pic of him on a stage with a clarenet with some other guys playing Jaz at one of the camps.

It would be nice to be able to piece toghether those 5 years but so far not much joy.

 

Iain

My Grandfather who was on the vandyck was eventually registered as spending the war at Marlag Ind Milag Nord , Westertimke (Tarmstedt) As your father was on the same ship, and presumably captured at the same time, my guess is he was at the same camp for some time

Very interesting.

Would you consider posting a few photo's of your Grandfathers paintings/drawings?

Indeed I wouldI will get some more done, but most are in poor condition,

Hi joined this forum because of a question posted about the sinking of hms vandyk, a ship my grandfather was on when it was bombed in 1940, so I thought I would try to share the info I have of this event, cheers g

Vandyck was an armed guard ship supposed to escort ships in the Norwegian area, it was actually sunk by a bomber on its way to act as an escort, it was originally a cruise liner and pressed into service at the beginning of the war, with a big cannon on its bows, but was sunk in 1940, I have paintings and drawings of the event done by my grandfather and other crew whilst POWs , my grandfather never recovered from 5 years as a pow and died in early 50s before I was born

Hi

I hope this is the right place for this question.

My father was in the navy during WW2 and was sunk in HMS Van Dyke off Norway. His recollection was that the ship was crewed by volunteers and used as a decoy when the RN evacuated Norway. I have not seen any mention of this anywhere, does anyone have any information on the sinking of the Van Dyke and what it was doing there?

Many thanks

My grandfather was also on this ship, I believe 7 crew inc 2 officers died, the rest of the crew were taken to oflag 1X, so reports go, but my research shows that was a pow camp (a castle I believe) for RAF POWs , yet I own the war office telegram stating clearly that's where the survivors were taken, bit of a mystery truth be known