BC312

The WW1 British Mk4 tank  that the Tank Museum displays and rides around at the big events is a War horse replica, why, The original one they have is too fragile to operate, the armour had become that brittle over time, every time the tank goes over a small rut or bump the crack in the armour opens up. The Weald Foundation FT 17 tanks they have the armour had to be annealed as it was full of cracks that had to be repaired. The armour turns like cast iron guttering, one smack with a hammer and it shatters. Speaking to those at the museum some tanks will have to be mothballed in years to come and replicas made because of this. If a replica is made exact to the original then i see no problem. Its nice to see an original but in years to come parts will have to be made ie replicas. Even now parts are hard to find for German tanks, fenders boxes and other parts missing have to be copied to make the tank look as it was or to make it function. The FT 17 tanks they have their carbs are exact replica copies or original as there are non about, plus a new batch of Rubber tyres have been made for the  Dingos recently ,replica copies to keep them going. So are they running around on toy tires?

Jeep parts are now re made in the far east, you can buy a tub or chassis to keep you jeep going as original parts are running out because people keep driving them about like a modern day runarounds but cant drive it as its now a  toy part better hide it in the garage how shameful to have anything connected to anything replica or should i say toy parts.

I believe when they build a spitfire or any other WW2 aircraft to fly the original parts are not airworthy they have been subjected to a crash so replicas of parts have to be made. Theres a guy in Canada building a Hawker Typhoon from ground up, he has all original parts but they cant be used they have to be copied, hardly a toy, 

A while back a group found a Buffalo amphibian vehicle at Crowland Lincolnshire which is now recovered and under restoration. Any one know what type of detection gear they used or is used these days for locating such vehicles that deep 30 feet i believe. 

Funny that the Tank museum is showing off a replica Whippet tank named music Box this year.

This will be the world debut of the replica of the Whippet “Musical Box”. The build was conducted by Landships CIC and ran from 2019 to 2024 (with a break for COVID). It involved thousands of hours of workshop effort and research, including interviewing descendants of Musical Box’s crew, over 7 tons of steel for the fabrication, 1000 pretend rivets, 14km of welding wire, and 400 cutting and grinding disks. 

Another toy.

Has anyone built one of the CNC vehicle plans armoured cars offered on Milweb a SDKFZ.222 and Humber scout car Mk1 or in the process of building one. What do you think and how are you getting on with the build? Based on a Range Rover chassis.

I was wondering where my old Ferret is now 01CA67, cant remember the civilian reg, had great time restoring the vehicle and driving it, wish i had one now. I also had 01CA68, this was a up armoured version. Anyone know.

Open to offers.

I have been wondering what Bren guns go for these days as i have been thinking about selling mine. I can remember you could get them for £150 in box. I know that Mk 2 & 3 Brens sell for less than  war time Mk1s with wartime dates and more for double dove tail. Seems to be a lot of over inflated prices and then silly low prices, seems the market has gone mad both ways.

For sale Remote radio set for the SCR 299 399 499 radio truck. This a unit that has a BC 312 and field telephone that works and controls the radio 1/4 mile from radio truck.

Comes with hard to find parts chest unit CH121 and legs. Battery box, JB60 unit morse tapper, light and fuze box, radio mounts and aerial set. Working radio BC312 picks up around the world. Ideal as a separate display piece on own or in a truck. Cash sale £850

For those collecting US Army radio parts or need a spare for a BC728 radio, hard to find just missing rubber mast bung and bracket that clips to side otherwise mast is in full working order and cable is flexible with no cracks.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225678151761

The Hogmoore Enclosure show is still looking for a Bofors gun for the Military event on the 24th September this year. If anyone can help out that would be great.

Looking at a BS381C chart online looks very minimal plus the colours dont match original. You need to get a old chart, you can get this from the British Standards Institute, when i rang them years ago they gave me the run down of the history of BS381C, very interesting, worth contacting them, they may be able to point you in the directions of war time paints. I thought that Light bronze green in a matt would be a late wartime Vehicle colour or deep bronze green for the 1950-60s ferrets before the black and Nato green cammo came about. Deep Bronze green is BS381C 224 it seems there is no Light Bronze green on the chart i was looking at and not the colours they should be. Sea green being one that was used before Nato smoke El deNil.

have a look here https://creativeawards.co.uk/blogs/news/british-standard-colour#:~:text=In 1948%2C shortly after the,on long-established practice".

9 hours ago, 10FM68 said:

Oh that it was that simple!  Sadly, this wasn't the case for WWII paint.  Most of the standard camouflage colours didn't have BS numbers.  They were 'described' instead - with vague terms such as 'tea with milk', 'which can mean all sorts - Army tea with milk can be distinctly orange while that consumed by Grandma has an altogether lighter hue!  And, of course, NATO green is a relatively new colour on the BS 285 list (perhaps not yet 50 years old) and every NATO country has its own interpretation of what a NATO green is!  And, it has to be said, even the professionals struggle to match batches of the same paint as I discovered to my cost when respraying my Land Rover!  The picture below shows a 'NATO Green' from the same producer but from batches perhaps six months apart!

I dont suspect any squaddie to know the correct colour code for paint. During WW2 paint was paint, if it was dark green, they called it dark green, if it was brown and it look like it came from a baby's bottom it would be s***brown by the squaddies at the stores. In stores they had paint for different things, and would most probably call the paint related to what it was for, certainly not by the code. In emergencies they had what they had and was made do, if it was Home Guard they had what they could afford or get their hands on. If it look near and done the job. The BS381C code changed a lot over the years, named colours changed, colours were omitted and new ones added. I used Nato green as an example of the coding and was not used during WW2. As for paint manufactures and paint shops today who call themselves experts and professional i spent a year on the phone researching for wrinkle finish paint asking about the paint and paints in general. 90% hadn't a clue about paint, they didn't know much if not hardly anything about BS381C or other codes come to that, so i can see why you got a crap deal, a lot of business amateurs out there, you have to do your home work to get what you want.

All UK government paints for GPO Army Navy and Airforce all came under the BS381C paint code system which started during the early 1930s, so if you wanted to paint something in Nato green you would use BS381C 285 Nato green etc. Of course the chart has changed colours over the years and has amended and deleted some colours now not used. These colours also include ordnance as well. If something was made or manufactured at a factory the paint spec was also specified in BS381C colour, what happens after the made item leaves the factory is a matter of what is available in the camps and institutions they end up. Remember a lot of the interior of most houses before and after the war were drab browns and greens,. A spare tin of household paint on camp to enhance the camouflage of a WW2 vehicle could be knocked up to resemble paint not in stores, may not be a perfect match but near on, as long as it matched the spec of the camouflage manual. 

OK, i know these are a beast. Is there anything else you could take like a tank or other type vehicle. Don't worry if you cant. May be next year if the show is successful. The slot is there if you want. I thought it would be good to inform more punters to your museum up the road. They had a small non military history even a month or so ago and it was packed and very popular, so the military event so be a bit of a hit.

Dropping off the day before should be fine, i will PM the contact email. 

Hi Paulob1, Thanks for replying. we were trying to get a 40mm bofors at the site to promote the gun site  which was discovered a couple of years ago. The show its self is new and will get bigger if successful this year. I was thinking if you wanted to promote you museum you could advertise some of your exhibits there as this show also caters for post war displays and i am sure anything you bring the 155mm gun or a vehicle would be very much appreciated and would help your museum. I can pass on the trust's details to you if you decide. If you do know someone with a 40mm Bofors who can help they would like to know.

Anyone else who would like to show off their pride and joy other than a 40 mm Bofors in the area let us know. It would also be nice to see a tank Amoured car etc there maybe a Centurion or Chieftain as it was their old training area. 

Regards Chris

The Hogmoor Enclosure at a Bordon Hampshire that was once part of REME, its still owned by the MOD as crown land and is now run and looked after by the Land Trust. A while back I discovered a Bofors Gun site and Radar trailer 50 yards away on the Enclosure. Both gun site and Radar trailer are now both listed as part of English Heritage. This year the Land Trust is holding a celebration of Military history in September on the 24th Sunday. The Trust if they can would like to have a Bofors gun there for the day from 10-4 for display. I was wondering if anyone on the forum who has a Bofors gun would like to show off their pride and joy for the event. If anyone would like to help out just message me and get something organised.

I am after a case and rubber eye piece for a No 33 and some internal spares for another.

21 hours ago, eddy8men said:

they can be found easily enough at militaria fairs or ebay

I most probably walked by scope rubbers and transit tins a 100 times and never paid any attention until you end up buying a scope, then you kick yourself for not grabbing a scope rubber or tin which were going for peanuts only to find now they are worth more than the scope. I have seen these tins  at car boot fairs not knowing what they were for, typical. 

4 hours ago, Ian J said:

Too true. It used to cost us $NZ3 to the GBP, These days the rate is around $2\GBP. 

We love the UK and W&P has been a real highlight of our holidays there.

Try other shows and then do the Tank Fest, i am sure it will make up the loss of going to W&P, get to see the rest of the country. W&P will never come back the trust is gone, have to move on, most vehicle owners and re enactors hobby don't revolve around one show. why would you go and support a show where you have to pay privilege to be there, cheeky buggers. As for an international show, i am sure one will rise from the others, its what you make of what you got, support these shows, let your feelings known before it gets out of hand so you dont end up with another W&P situation, quite simple, just talk to people.

Thanks Rick. Not bad to work on, could do with having spares available like screws other parts. Not sure if the rubber eye pieces are about as well as the transit tins these sights come in.

The last two pictures are the main missing bits for the 41 dated scope, the cross hair glass assembly and the retaining ring that hold it in place and the 4 adjusting screws that move the cross hairs around. These parts would very near finish the scope. Did try to find information on how these scopes are sighted in, you would have thought there would be some form of instruction but not. Instructions how to use are in the gunner manual section of the tank main manual.

The last picture shows the front protecting cover that push clips in place to remove or replace, just squeeze the two lugs in. The rear lense looks cracked but the glue has separated the two half's, this glue sometimes frosts or crystals the glass but its the glue deteriorating.

Bought two tank Gun sights, one dated 1941 missing bits and one 1942 both No33 Mk 1, i assume used in  tanks with 2 pounder and Besa MG like the A13 Mk 2, Covenanter, Crusader Matilda etc, the 1942 one needed a good clean, paint and re blue of the body. The 1941 scope it seemed someone was trying to turn it into a telescope by hacking off the square lug key way that fits the gun mount, removing the cover lense at the front and removing the 4 adjusting screws and sight glass assembly, otherwise it would have been a mint scope.

The 42 scope had a lot of verdigris  around the eye piece and the glass looked cracked, the eyes piece were the rubber eye piece would fit around was dented and had to be formed back, bit of hard work here. It seems that the sight being a heavy item was dropped, most probably a common thing with these sights. The paint work was chipped and tatty plus the front steel body was rusty, this was rust blued originally. First  i removed the green tarnish verdigris which was hard to move and started to form inside, i assume from moisture and water damage, this i had to lightly blast clean it off and re brass black inside as well as a new black paint finish in Suncorite, very hard wearing and whiten the lettering.  The lense  which i though was cracked had come apart as its a two part lense which is specially glued together, the glue can be removed by boiling and re bonded. In the end i swapped out  the 41 scope lense to make good this scope. I carefully cleaned the glass lenses especially on the cross hair glass which is etched and blacked in, the lettering is very small about .3 of a mm.

The front tube body was separated from all component's and filed and sanded down to remove all pitting to grade 320. The tube was rusted and boiled as per rust blueing about 5 times and then final carding for oil bath for  24 hours. this process matched original finish of internal parts that were fine. All assembled now need eye rubber and transit case.

The 41 scope needed to have the hacked key way re placed, it was original machine slotted with the 1/4 key riveted in place, the outer screws had the slots soldered to prevent tampering, thank god the solder was easy to remove and the screws came out with ease, not sure what size these would be (anyone know the thread sizes for these scopes). After refitting a new key the remaining bodge up hacksaw and file marks had to be dressed out and the body re rust blued to original. I repainted the paint work again and whitened the lettering. With this scope it comes to a stop as i am in need for some parts especially the 4 large adjusting screws the sighting glass ring asembley and ring that holds it in place and the 4 small countersink screws holding the ring.  I also need the sight protector at the front, new glass and the retaining ring, the glass is just plain non focusing glass, it just protects the inner lense from dust and mud. Any one know where i can get scope bits from ie a busted up scope beyond repair but has good parts or from a box of scope spares to finish this scope off.

Went to the Capel show today, Great sho,  lots to see, great setting catched up with old friends bit like a mini War and Peace show in its early days. Now the War and Peace is no longer, more will flock to this show with more vehicles re enactors and stalls, it gets bigger every year.