Diana and Jackie

Hi

All the info you will ever need is on Andy's website, including manuals and parts suppliers.

http://www.ferret-fv701.co.uk/

Cant help on the servo as our Ferret doesn't have one- despite which now the braking system has been overhauled the stopping distance for a 4 ton vehicle isn't too bad at all.

D&J

Im now suspecting the brake vacuum servo, hard pedal, no change in brake operation once engine is started, I still think there is sticky brake on one side that is a different issue. I'll have to crack open the manuals and see what can be done to test and service the servo, but if it is bad does anyone have a source for spares? If ebay (I checked), link?

 

Thanks in advance.

Hi,

Its likely that every wheel cylinder and the master cylinder will need overhauling.

Go to each wheel cylinder and see if you can turn the brake bleed nipple. If you can't then the cylinder will need replacing as the bleed nipple is seized and if forced will likely break off. The brake nipples and cylinders are exactly the same on every wheel station, other parts may not be.

Personally, after a similar experience, I would remove each cylinder (if serviceable) and get them lined with stainless steel. The same with the master cylinder. Renew the rubber seals in all cylinders - Oh and don't forget the flexible brake pipes, any signs of perishing renew them.

Damage or deterioration may be hidden by paint as was the case with our Ferret when one pipe broke when I twisted it!

New master cylinders can be obtained off ebay for around £60.

It's also worth taking off the brake drums to check for any sign of oil contamination (which may occur if the wheel gearbox was overfilled as in our case) and or wear. At the same time LIGHTLY lubricate the adjuster mechanism.

My suspicion is that after 25 years you are going to be doing a lot of work to get it roadworthy.

D&J

I have acquired a Ferret that has been relatively stationary for the past 25 years. The owner would pull it out of its shed once a month to run the engine otherwise it really wasn't driven (~350 miles in 25 years).

 

The brake pedal is currently very "hard" and stuck in the "up" position.

 

I've read the following regarding unsticking brakes:

 

http://www.ferretforums.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=17&sid=891407cadfd8c9f5567b489bda5a93e8

 

And this as well:

http://www.smokingairplanes.com/DAIMLERFERRETMAINTENANCEBRAKESCYLINDERWHEELHUBASSEMBLYENGINE.htm

 

I posted over in Ferret heaven and someone mentioned just pumping the brakes hard.

 

But as I like to get as much info and opinions as possible (as I am very new to all of this) I was wondering how people here would go about diagnosing and fixing the "hard" brake pedal issue.

Modern repairs using fibreglass, epoxy and silicon hold just as many dangers - probably more long term dangers than lead.

Having worked with a number of people actively involved in lead plumbing over 50 years I've yet to see anyone suffer from the effects, except a burn or two.

D&J

But is that what you guys use? lead is pretty toxic stuff. Surely there are modern things that will do the job as well?

The method used before fibreglass was lead plumbing solder, which if properly done will not fall out or off later.

The solder was, after application, smoothed down using conventional means.

D&J

Those of you with these old rigs certainly have knowledge of rust. Or soon get it! Fortunately, many of the parts used are heavy gauge materials so the rust damage is mostly cosmetic. I see some restored rigs where this metal is very smooth as if it's been filled and others where the parts have merely been painted and you can still see the pitting. I was wondering what those of you who fill the pitting do? I'm mostly taking about the hard parts here, like chassis runners, axle housings, suspension components, etc., not bodywork.

http://www.esdjournal.com/static/Static_Fires.pdf

D&J

Can post pictures later, We've had a few test welds done on a machine gun mantlet, tried levering, bending and twisting them off and wont budge, which is a lot better than those on our Ferret which ping off quite easily.

Had all sorts of stories told us by one maker of the machines, wrong metal, metal is too thick etc.

The test welds are excellent

D&J

Hi All,

We can confirm that studs can be welded onto armor using a capacitor discharge stud welder.

This type of stud welder can be hired from HSS hire.

Diana & Jackie

Belzona is brilliant!

We've filled and built up the damage through heat and corrosion where our ferret exhaust passes through the body.

Flattened it using a belt sander and then for good measure belt sanded the exhaust face and the fitting inside the engine compartment (both were bowed? bolted it all together using copper gaskets and its 100% gas tight as well as looking great.

There's another material on ebay called quick steel which is 1/7th the price of Belzona so that maybe? a cheaper substitute.

D & J

Diana an Jackie,

 

Just remembered doing this job some years ago and had great success in building up pitting on the hull sealing surfaces, with Belzona metal repair.This is a professional product used in heavy industry, providing preparations ot the surface are done right, it will work, then face it off with a block and abrasive paper, it will be good again.

Hi,

There is indeed a stainless steel grade bolt/nut which can be used in place of steel high tensile nuts/bolts they are however not run of the mill, extremely expsnsive and only justifiable in marine enviroments.

The golden rule is to use high tensile steel fixings on any part that is stressed, engine mountings, drive shafts, suspension, steering, engine to gearbox fixings, brake fitments etc.

Elsewhere where there are no high stresses involved stainless can be used but with care. A number of people have suggested using copper grease, this is fine as long as the part you are screwing into is compatable, copper and aluminium are not. So copper grease on a spark plug screwed into an aluminium cylinder head is not a good idea, instead a dab of high melting point grease.

Where you can use copper grease, and if not a proprietry grease. The parts that must not be greased under any circumstance are wheel nuts.

The best protection for steel nuts and bolts is hot dip galvanising priming and painting, or electroplating, yellow passivating followed by a coat or two of suitable primer (etch primer?) then a few coats of top coat.

If you look at ex mod equipment including vehicles where nuts and bolts have been used and the original finish exists you will see most nuts and bolts have been yellow passivated.

D&J

Hi,

while doing bits and pieces on my Landrover I am finding the perennial problem of rusted fixings, nuts bolts etc. While I know I am unlikely to reach the standards of many of the restorations detailed on the forum, I would like to at least try and get things right.

 

Whats the view on stainless steel nuts/bolts etc. Having spent some time in the power industry I've heard lots about stress corrosion cracking and inter-granular attack of stainless and the one thing you can guarantee is a corrosive environment and plenty of stress on the nuts and bolts on the underneath of a vehicle.

 

I would be grateful if people could share their, thoughts/knowledge/experience of the different materials on offer for the basic nuts and bolts of a restoration. Should I just replace like with like where corrosion/damage/rounded heads etc. mean that I might not be so lucky if I try and remove something next time, or should I go for stainless and damm the expense (and the fact that they maybe don't look right)?

 

Looking forward to the discussion ahead.

 

Cheers Julian

Hi,

Suggest you dont waste your time with Gun blue, tried two types and ok for a temporary measure but long term a waste of time and money.

Hear there's a person called Colin in Manchester who owns an air rifle shop (Air Guns Manchester) , he's supposed to be reasonably priced and does a good job of professionally re-bluing guns.

D&J

As some may know i have an Enfield Mk1** pistol which is in a rough state. It has been crudely painted with black paint covering up all markings and leaving drips of paint on it. Where the paint has chipped you can clearly see the original bluing has gone.

 

Does anyone know any ideas of re-bluing or finishing? I am very ford of it and it world be a shame to leave it as it is

 

I found this: http://www.ehow.com/how_5679415_refinish-metal-gun-parts.html

 

I looked on Ebay and Gun Blue seems to take several forms: gel, liquid etc Which is best?

 

 

An exact copy... I've checked .

Painting after preparation of the galvanished finish will all depend on the lousy Welsh weather

D&J

Dear D + J,

 

nice to see those, just one question, something in my mind thinks the footman loops are a bit big? Maybe its my imagination.

 

Now for a good priming before paint, that will be the next challenge and one that I know others have failed at to their cost.

 

R

Stainless steel is hard to work, especially if you need to drill it! but lasts forever.

Not going to say the cost - but it was extra because they were hot dip galvanised. If they have a pattern they can pretty much make anything, and once its programmed into the plasma cutter, which cuts it out of one sheet (up to 1/2" thick) if possible with no waste then its easy to reproduce.

I would think a centre bin, once it was programmed in would be rather easy to make. As long as you either have a pattern or drawing then the sky is the limit. Now all we need is the rain to stop and they will be getting painted.

Diana & Jackie

They look good. I replaced all 4 of mine in 2002. I had them made in 16 gauge stainless, cost me £1175 inc vat. A lot of money but well worth it.

 

Andy

After searching for a few weeks we finally found a company to make new mudguards for our ferret.

Shown below with the two mudguards on a plasma cutter with the Company Owner and the engineer who made them. The final touch was to have them hot dip galvanised.

The profile parts that make the mudguard are now computerised so there's no manual cutting out of sheetmetal.

Anyone interested should contact Thermal Engineering Swansea.

Diana and Jackie

We cut the seal, smothered it in grease and inserted it - unfortunately before all this the housing came out too far! and it was an aweful job to get to get the tracta joint and the housing back in, as well as lining up the dowels.

It was obvious that someone has goo'd up the large O ring so that the housing could not possible move at all - clearly not inderstanding how it all worked

If they had used an O ring on the outside cannot see why they did not use one internally.

For those nonplussed by it all. Attached a photo showing a sdcrewdriver pointing to the cork seal, The O ring fits in front of the cork seal towards the outside of the vehicle

D&J

Hi,

 

The scans are not clear but without checking my book, am sure it is item 38. The O-ring you talk about with the goo, this is fitted at the point where the inner tracta housing slides out. as this is a weakness in design ( the cork seal I mean), there is always seepage here, but it is actually neccessary to ensure the inner housing does not sieze. As the suspension rises and falls this housing moves very slightly in and out.

 

Richard

Hope these scans are clearer

D&J

Diana and Jackie,

 

The cork ring is on the outside of the inner tracta housing. When i say outside, I mean around the circumference, so no need to dismantle, only extract it from the bevel box.

 

regards, Richard

Thank you Richard. It appears that there wasnt a cork ring fitted, which is why we are mystified. The rubber O ring was more or less stuck on with goo of some sort.

If we understand correctly, remove the 4 unf bolts holding the tinplate gaiter ring, remove that, then remove the brass challis which also holds a conventional oil seal and the cork ring is behind that?

Attached some diagrams which may help others

Diana & Jackie

Hi,

We're mystified as to how to replace the cork ring seal on our ferret bevel box without undoing the locking ring with a C spanner. The locking ring being prevented from turning with a metal tab. It appears that undoing the locking ring will alter the bearing preload,

Can anyone enlighten us as to how to go renewing the cork seal ? We've got a suitable C spanner but don't wish to remove the locking ring in case it upsets the preload.

The maintenance information is more than confusingas to how to go about it.

D&J

http://vorwahlgetriebe.de/english/pages/home.php

D&J:cool2:

Can't quite makeout the connection between Ferret's and Land Rovers...different animals :wow:

Does any other vehicle of Ferret size have a gearbox in its wheel hub?

D&J

They look very similar the the ones on the front of a Scammell explorer. Mine are in perfect nick at 60 years old with no gaiters on....why can't land rover make then to the same standard....

Hi

They are chromed, One we took off was badly pitted with water.

The boot is there to keep the water and dirt out, not to keep oil in, and I suspect that many peoples problems are caused by the chrome finish being damaged, hence damaging the oil seal, so the oil gets out and if water and dirt get in which damaged it in the first place then the oil will exit by the same route all over the ground, as well the gearbox will run short of oil and that leads to other problems.

A rechrome means the surface being machined down and then chromed, We checked the price for this and as its a specialist job the price was over £250, though we did find a company to do it, so its a good incentive to take care of the drive systems, and get the boots renewed if there's a hole or damage.

When we've put the boots on we've used gasket sealant and checked they were fairly watertight by gently squeezing the boot. If the air escapes its likely water will enter by the same route.

D&J

weld up the cut with a stainless rod, file and emery to perfection, keep as a spare or reuse. Are they chromed?

We did it in 4 hours!

remove the cables noting which heavy cable goes where.

Remove the bottom and side bolts first, it helps to have small hands and the engine deck off.

short spanners open ended and ring the other are essential. The bottom bolt is the worst and may have to be done by feel bit by bit.

When you have them out tie a rope around the starter and remove the top bolt, we did not need to remove anything apart from the exhaust pipes (not the manifolds). pull the starter up using the rope. Lower the new starter by rope when going to replace it.

Before you attempt to fit the new starter oil the bolts so that they screw in easily - try them in the threaded holes.

Fit the top bolt first then the others and apart from replacing the cables that's it!

Oh and dont oil or grease the starter pinion or it will tend to stick later.

On second thoughts dont think we could get the ring spanners on the bolts as there was no clearance and we took the tachometer cable off as well.

its also covered under :

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?2323-Ferret-starter-motor

and http://www.ferretforums.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=24

D&J

Starter replacement, anyone know if this is a tough or an easy job....all relative of course...

Maybe useful!

http://www.smokingairplanes.com/DAIMLERFERRETMAINTENANCEBRAKESCYLINDERWHEELHUBASSEMBLYENGINE.htm

Diana and Jackie

No wonder the Tracta boot was full of oil when we took the boot off.

Damage caused by someone using a hacksaw to remove a tracta boot.

The housing is only fit for scrap.

Notice the damage caused at two other places. Some idiot has tried to minimise the damage with a file.

Diana and Jackie

Agree,

An air operated grease gun is essential.

The greasing points are badly placed, they rely on grease going down the centre of a pivot pin and then through a hole to the outside of the pin, along the gap between the pin and its pivots bearing.

Its all too easy to think when you see grease coming out one side that the pivot is greased when it should come out of both sides. Obviously if the hole in the middle gets clogged (with old grease or dirt) or similarly one side of the pivot bearing its doubtful whether a hand operated gun will clear it. I've even tried a tool for clearing blocked grease nipples which you fill with oil and hit with an hammer and that was useless too.

Best success was with a blowlamp on the joint followed by an air operated grease gun.

D&J

mine use to creak rear r/h side over about 2 months jacked it up pump grease in jack up. pump grease in ad nauseam drive it over rough ground grease again jack up grease again fitted older style grease nipple took nipple out poked in hole with locking wire sprayed in degreaser, refit nipple finally had to get ferret to place with airdriven grease gun siezed pivot pin was lwr one next to hull.

HI Robin,

Sorry for slow reply.

We're renewing the mudguards. When its jacked up its always creaked from the back end. When we took off the mudguard we realised the shoock absorber wouldnt pivot, we then realised that the suspension spring seat also had a problem pivoting.

The seat and shock absorber fit over a metal sleeve, the sleeve in turn fits over the pivot.

The bad design allows the pivot to be greased each end (the pivot swivels in brass or bronze bushesin the upper wishbone). What the lubrication system does not do is lubricate the sleeve or the seat/shock absorber base

We've taken advice from experts and if it will not free after heating preferably with oxy-acetylene and a cold bucket of water then its not going to.

The solution of course would have been to grease it with copper grease in the first place.

There's a 50 ton press in work so the next plan is get the suspension off and try to press the pin out.

We did finally get the shock absorber to rock back and fro, which is a start.

It would have helped if the people who had the ferret before us had used a grease gun. However our experience is that the only grease gun for this job is a continuous flow air grease gun of good quality, tried the cheap junk off ebay and thats a waste of time.

Tip for anyone buying a ferret ....jack it up, if it creaks then you may have a suspension pivot problem - a big one!

D&J

what has been the reason for tearing the suspension down in the begining?

 

can you post picture as Im away from my manuals etc

 

may be able to advise if I see something

 

R