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Diana and Jackie

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Posts posted by Diana and Jackie


  1. Hi Richard,

    I had a 1 metre 3/4" breaker bar standing on it and the lock ring would not move, even with a 1500Nm impact wrench it took 5 minutes to get the lock ring (on both sides) to move, I suspect depending on who overhauled the gearbox,( this was Belgian) you may or may not get a problem.

    You can also notice bodge marks on the large lock ring - not caused by me, clearly they had tried to get it off by bodging.

    You may notice that not even the oil seals were properly fitted, a bearing dust cap was fitted on both sides, one had come loose, had a steel backing and damaged the seal surface of the output coupling shaft, the output coupling shaft lock ring was loose as well which was causing the major oil leak and started off the whole repair.

    Incidentally the outer seals were nitrile - with finger springs - really old seals, and the inner seals were Viton, none of which makes the least bit sense!

    In all a right bodge, so I suggest anyone taking this job on needs to hope for the best and be prepared for the worst.

    Diana

     


  2. T

     

    1878071122_Gearboxseals0001.thumb.jpg.f4b2ba800e29104b39b580a9db5e61c6.jpg

     

     

     

    List of parts

    8 Slotted nut (incorrectly numbered in spares book - should be 48?)

    47 Tab Washer

    46 Washer

    45 O ring

    44  O ring

    43 Output Drive Coupling

    42 Oil Seal

    40 Bearing Retainer and Oil Seal Holder

    39 Bearing

    38 Bearing Inner Spacee

    37 Bearing Outer Spacer

    36 Inner Lock Ring Retaining Tab Washer

    35 Spacer

    34 Steering Hub inner slotted lock ring

    33 Steering Disc Hub

    32 Oil seal

    22 Gearbox Steering Hub Bearing Retainer and Oil Seal Holder

    23 Bearing

    24 Spacer

    25 Spacer

    26 Roller Bearing

    27 Roller Bearing outer track retainer

    13 Steering hub drive

     

     

    Part 2

    Replacing the inner seal.

    Having completed part 1

    http://hmvf.co.uk/topic/40807-cvrt-gearbox-oil-seal-replacement-part-1/

     

     The next stage is to replace the inner seal.

    Access to the inner seal can only be obtained by removing slotted lock ring item 34.

    THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO ACCESS THE SEAL AND ANY BEARINGS BEHIND IT, it is essential that the lock ring is not damaged, it is also unlikely the lock ring can be removed by any form of bodging such as using a drift, screwdriver or chisel and any attempt using other methods.

    anything apart from the correct tool is likely to cause damage, rendering the removal of the locking ring next to impossible – you have been warned!

     

    To access the lock ring having removed the seal holder/bearing retainer, knock back in using a soft drift the drive shaft coupling.

    Once again pull out the drive shaft coupling and with luck the bearing item 39 will come out with it, if it does the bearing has to be pulled off the coupling for later reinsertion into the hub.

    If the bearing does not come out with the coupling it will have to be removed using a bearing insert extractor. The bearing is readily available and reasonably cheap.

     

    With the bearing removed spacers items 38,37,36 and 35 can be removed, a magnet is useful to remove item 35.

     

    With all the spacers removed the slotted lock ring should be removed, the only way, in my experience to remove this is using a castle socket impact wrench made specifically for the job and a 1500Nm air impact wrench, even a 1 meter breaker bar may not remove the lock ring.

     

     To prevent the hub turning fit 2 or 3 G clamps to the steering disc which will contact the still attached  steering brake caliper whilst the lock ring is removed.

     

    With The lock ring slacked off upend the box as best it can be and remove the lock ring, once removed, remove the G clamps and the steering brake caliper.

     

    The hub is heavy !

     

    There is no need to remove the steering brake disc.

    Using a 3 leg puller pull off the steering disc hub.

    Lift the hub clear, Item 24 will now have dropped making reinstallation of the hub difficult unless the hub and housing are on a flat surface

    The oil seal is now accessible and can be removed.

    Examine the seal surface on the hub for a groove using a finger nail, a shiny ring  on the seal surface is acceptable. If there is a groove a speedy sleeve will have to be fitted.

     

    The replacement seal can now be fitted into item 22 or can be fitted later after item 22 is removed from the main gearbox, (see later)  Item 22 has to be removed to reinsert the steering disc hub,

     

    Remove the bolts, item 31 on the periphery of item 22 as well as the socket head bolts item 29. Item 22 can now be pulled off the gearbox by screwing into the two threaded 7/16” Unf bolts on the edge of item 22

     

    Fitting the seal

    If a rubber edged seal as previously described is used then insertion into item 22 is not too difficult. Place the seal into the housing and gently push, using hand pressure on the edge making sure the seal is fitting squarely into the housing. With a soft faced hammer or mallet gently tap the seal working slowly all the way around the seal, gradually the seal will move into the housing, when it is flush place the old seal, face on face to the new seal, and again tap gently using the old seal to push the new seal home.

    The new seal should not protrude past the housing face, and should sit slightly inside the housing when correctly fitted.

    The old seal I removed can clearly be seen in a photo below protruding outside the housing where it had been rubbing on the hub and incorrectly fitted.

     

    Fitting the hub into housing item 22

    Grease the seal and the surface on which the seal faces on the hub.

    Place the hub into housing 22, centre spacer 24, the hub now needs to be pulled back into item 22 and it’s two bearings using a suitable bolt and two face plates.

    A suitable kit is 23pc Front Wheel Drive Bearing Puller Removal Installation Tool Kit Set” from eBay or Machine Mart, together with a suitable locally produced flat plate with a hole.

     

    Once the hub is back into housing item 22, the housing can be reattached to the gearbox, use blue Hylomar to seal the joint before reattaching item 22.

    Replace the slotted lock ring, tightening it back to where it came off such that it can be locked in place with locking washer item 36 after the spacer 35 is fitted.

    Refit spacers 37 and 38, refit bearing 39 hammering it in squarely on its outer race.

    Proceed to fit the bearing retainer/seal housing as per part one and continue assembly as per part 1 

    http://hmvf.co.uk/topic/40807-cvrt-gearbox-oil-seal-replacement-part-1/

    1164572672_castlelockring.thumb.jpg.134621bad77adf625ab188f6c6163f54.jpg

    Item 35  spacer can clearly be seen, behind that is the difficult to remove lock ring

    20190919_120615.thumb.jpg.9863211196051e63aa869e7328e6853e.jpg

    Steering disc hub removed, old oil seal clearly visible

    20190919_120627.thumb.jpg.a88330d4c09cce6292e200746f99f97b.jpg

    The incorrect fitting of the old seal can be clearly seen.

    20190914_150017.thumb.jpg.39eb313bd31774ed9fcd696a29ce4353.jpg

    New correctly fitted double lip seal

     

    1908280281_20190919_1531311.thumb.jpg.49b583ac5331f696c6dd9363c1d2b16c.jpg

     

     

    Preparing to pull the steering hub into it's housing -Notice the rust marks on the sealing flange ! The silicon sealant used previously had not been correctly applied. - use Blue Hylomar!

    1445796260_20190919_1531521.thumb.jpg.846f116c3a642e50d721094bb9a30176.jpg

     

    The steering brake hub being pulled back into it's housing with a super large bolt and a piece of scrap aluminium. The 7/16" UNF bolt is still in place used to split item 22 from the gearbox.

     


  3. Many Thanks to Richard Farrant for the many message exchanges and brain picking!

    1811841322_Gearboxseals0001.thumb.jpg.48639c262b32453667ec683f40de7380.jpg

     

    List of parts

    8 Slotted nut (incorrectly numbered in spares book - should be 48?)

    47 Tab Washer

    46 Washer

    45 O ring

    44  O ring

    43 Output Drive Coupling

    42 Oil Seal

    40 Bearing Retainer and Oil Seal Holder

    39 Bearing

    38 Bearing Inner Spacee

    37 Bearing Outer Spacer

    36 Inner Lock Ring Retaining Tab Washer

    35 Spacer

    34 Steering Hub inner slotted lock ring

    33 Steering Disc Hub

    32 Oil seal

    22 Gearbox Steering Hub Bearing Retainer and Oil Seal Holder

    23 Bearing

    24 Spacer

    25 Spacer

    26 Roller Bearing

    27 Roller Bearing outer track retainer

    13 Steering hub drive

     

     

    The O rings are BS 120 and BS 131 however I believe BS 131 should be BS 133

    The Outer Oil Seal AS33726237VIT42  DOUBLE  LIP - The British Spares book gives metric measurements for this seal that are nonsense, no seal can be matched to these measurements

    The Inner Oil Seal 117mm x 142mm x 12mm DOUBLE LIP

    All seals and O rings should be Viton and all Oil seals should be double lip.

    Do not waste time using Nitrile Seals. The British MOD are using PTFE seals, they are highly expensive and not needed for MV collector use (unless you intend going to war)

    The oil seals and O rings can be obtained from BarnwellManchester.

     

    Special Tools needed:-

    Motorcycle suspension castle socket 6170 – This will need to have the internal castles ground back slightly

    Drive Shaft puller – it may be possible to adapt/modify a 3 leg puller

    Inner Lock Ring IMPACT socket – Special Tool!  ¾” drive (contact me for info) to remove item 34

    Possibly 1500Nm impact driver to remove item 34

     

    Procedure to replace outer oil seal.

    Remove gearbox out of vehicle, drain all oil, leave the brake caliper in place.

    Knock back  tab washer item 47

    Using the 6170 castle socket remove the slotted lock ring, to prevent the Drive coupling moving insert a suitable drift into one of its three holes and let it rotate against the brake caliper.

    Remove item 47

    Fit puller and pull off drive shaft  coupling against centre shaft. The washer item 46 can be recovered when the driveshaft coupling is removed.

    Remove the bearing retainer item 40 lever out oil seal item 42

    (Note to remove the bearing retainer remove the 6 retaining screws, using 2 x ¼” unf bolts screw into the housing in the threaded holes provided. Recover the bolts after the housing is extracted)

     

    If there is a dust cover fitted to the bearing remove it, since it’s not needed and should not be fitted.

    At this point the outer seal can be replaced and if the inner seal is not to be replaced then reassembly can begin. If the inner seal is to be replaced go to Inner seal replacement.

     

     

    Examine the seal surface of the drive coupling, if it has a groove, as confirmed by a finger nail fit a speedy sleeve shaft repair (see Youtube), the shaft may have a polished ring where the seal has rubbed, this is fine as long as no groove can be felt with a thumb nail.

     

    Use Blue Hylomar to seal the bearing housing, use blue thread locker to lock the retainer holding screws and screw in using a sutable HAMMER impact wrench to tighten.

     

    Grease liberally the oil seal, grease liberally the drive shaft coupling, fit to the splined shaft and knock in using a soft drift, such as aluminium, brass or nylon.

     

    Fit the two O rings, on the inner (smaller) O ring use a smear of silicon gasket maker.

    Fit the washer, 46, smear grease on the lip where the outer O ring fits, smear grease on the outer face of the washer, tighten the slotted nut, and then remove it.

    Fit the lock tab and grease the outer face

    Refit the slotted nut and tighten – WARNING, if overtightened it may destroy the locking tab.

     

    Knock over two of the lock tabs into the slots in the slotted nut.

    685562997_20190928_1219471.thumb.jpg.0bdc757882e470f431eb27c93cdc85aa.jpg

     

    Left Viton Seal, Centre Nitrile seal with gaiter spring, old nitrile seal with steel casing and spring fingers - maybe found in Belgian gearbox  get rid ASAP

     

    126371422_20190928_1220561.thumb.jpg.df54697074f1e4dc631a6f84b1d80a37.jpg

     

    Left to right:  Drive shaft coupling extractor,  drive shaft coupling lock ring retainer socket, lock ring tab washer, impact socket to remove inner slotted ring 3/4 drive.

     

    20190401_160616.thumb.jpg.b21a94a9fede54eb77affa646db2de21.jpg

    Bearing retainer and oil seal holder removed, clearly visible is the bearing, which still has it's dust cover fitted - should have been removed!

    • Thanks 1

  4. The integrity of the bulkhead (drivers wall) is essential for your safety. It's a firewall to stop fire, fumes and fuel getting to the driver and occupants and killing them.

    Both the throttle idle screw and mixture screws can be reached without removing the decking or drivers wall. It requires a little dexterity and knowledge of where the adjustments are located.

     


  5. There should be continuity between the copper armature segments, with everything disconnect, ie the brushes lifted, there should not be continuity between the armature shaft and copper segments.  follow the field windings and see if there's continuity of the field coils,

    Common failures are sticking brushes  i.e not making contact with the armature and loss of residual magnetism.

    A mechanic who knows what they are doing should be a bit more precise than "it's U/S"

    Diana

     


  6. Thanks to Richard I've just replaced the two outer seals on my CVRT Gearbox, there is also a slotted nut and behind that a washer, which has two seals, a rubber O ring and a flat rubber washer, both can also be a source of a leak as well as a loose slotted nut. Theses seals are also set in a removable housing held by machine screws, again the face of the housing can also be a source of a leak, I uses RTV silicon to seal the housing,

    If you replace the seals use Viton seals, also worth doing the two seals in related to the clutch, one inside the clutch and the other on the gearbox.

    Diana

     


  7. I recently wanted to renew a CVRT gearbox lubrication hose that was unavailable. After contacting Hoseman (Paul) on this forum he found a suitable replacement fitting and made up the new hose for me at a very reasonable cost.

    I know he has now bought all the spare 1 1/8 UNF hose ends in the UK, so if you want a CVRT hose remaking or renewed or a hose for any other vehcile this is the person you need to contact.

    Diana

     

     

     

    hose.jpg


  8.  A picture of the output coupling and castle lock ring. Subsequently the castle lock ring was found to be loose, underneath the washer was an O ring and a rubber washer, who's purpose is to stop oil leaking out of the box. If the castle lock ring is loose then oil is going to leak past the washer..

    I managed to remove the output coupling, the oil seal had gone hard, another cause of a leak.

    20190325_121233.jpg


  9. Hi Richard,

    I think I am getting my inner and outer seals confused. The smaller seal I believe can be removed with a Laser Tools part 6179 castle lock ring tool (for a Kawasaki motorcycle).. The removal of castle lock ring which has already been butchered on my gearbox, allows access to deal with the smaller seal, it's the larger seal that presents the problem.

    At least knowing the box has to be vertical is a start 🙂

    Tomorrow I will post a scan of relevant part of the box so that you may be able to enlighten us further !

    Thanks again for your invaluable input .....

    Diana

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