4x4Founder

They had both rear brakes and a driveshaft brake. Detuned to 50 hp and under 1500 rpm, the big Wisconsin still has a lot of torque. Can't hardly stall the thing. The first one I drove, the owner was going to let me cruise around around on his property alone on several miles of dirt roads. Showed me the basic controls and said, "Go, have fun." Being a modern driver, I looked around for instrumentation. There was none. It was a warm day, so I asked, "How do I know when it's overheating?" He replied, "Oh, it'll start spraying scalding water into your face." "What about oil pressure," I asked. "It'll either seize , knock or both," he said. "But don't worry, it won't!" I drove around for an hour until it was almost out of gas.

Here is some info and pics some of you may find of interest. http://www.oramagazine.com/pastissues/0503-issue/050312d-old-iron.html

I've only seen those wheels on postwar trucks. There were some spokers on license built trucks, but I don't recall seeing any like those. The only other type I've seen on the WWI era trucks are like on the Swedish truck pictured earlier. Is that one a license built model?

That's a good pic. They used the same sort of axle arrangement as the Quad, with a separate bevel gear differential mounted atop a beam axle, with half shafts to a spur and ring gear reduction at the wheels. It used the same M&S limited slips as the Quad, though reputedly strengthened, The engine was the same Wisconsin T-head the Model B FWD used. As I recall, the gearing was some 30 percent lower than the Quad and a little more than the Model B

The tracked conversion referred to is one. I have a few pix but I have to dig them out and scan them. If anyone had Vanderveen's "Army Vehclces to 1940" there are a couple of configurations there. Visually, they are very much like a Latil. It was an evolution and better than both the Quad and the FWD Model B because it had lower gearing. More tire too. Up to about 150 were made, but the exact number has not been verified.

Remember that the USA's requests didn't always make sense. One of the letters from FWD talked about how a "leather faced clutch had been tested and would not meet FWD standards." As to LHD, FWD cited that the industry had not yet decided with side to standardize the driving position and some prattle about visibility being better on the right ( : < ). Not sure about which engine was being referred to, but I agree that the Wisconsin B was about as good as it got in that day.

Oh, and the Catalog lists all the things available to modernize the Model B, and IIRC, show the original and modified truck. It's an original catalog.

I'm working from memory here, I'd have to go digging and reread the material, but after the Dubuque-Sparta run, the Army decided they wanted some standardized military features and changes in design. LHD for one. I have some 1913/1914 letters copied from the National Archive, from Olen to the QMC whereby FWD basically refuses to make any changes. I just found the letters and it had to do with LHD, the clutch, the Army wanting a different engine, the seating arrangement over the engine. The last of these talk about the Jeff Quad, how it had been tested in Texas and how it met their needs at a lower price. It also opens the door to future purchases.

Yeah, the prototype 1.5-tonners they built and later sold to John Payne... and later bought back. They were tested in the Dubuque, Iowa-Sparta, Wisconsin maneuvers in 1912, along with the first Model Bs and some other 4x4 trucks (as well as the original FWD Scout Car). I believe the production variant of the 1.5-ton was called the Model G (IIRC).

I read about it in a field artillery journal. I'd have to dig around to find the exact reference.

Yeah, I have that article too. Coleman took the technology a few steps farther than the Militor and was far more capable than the Quad or the original Model B due to it's two speed transfer case. I was kinda hoping to see a Militor among those hulks on the sea bottom near Hawaii in the nearby thread, since there are indications a few had been stationed there.

Yes, they are still in Otto's old shop, I drove (and photographed) everything in there that ran. The hallenge was, "If you can start it, you can drive it." One of the John Payne trucks was not operable and I darn near didn't get the Nancy Hank started, having cranked all the others to life on that cold November day. The caretake joked, "Yeah... old Nancy... she like a lot of foreplay, don't she?"

My current research jag is to ponder whether any of the Militor 4x4s have survived. The is evidence that as many as 75 were built, but some dispute that. The numbers I have seen range from 5-75, but I tend to think it's at the higher end, having seen a report that indicated a fairly large number (around 20) were used in some USA maneuvers in the '20s. The Militor was an interesting truck, with features from some the best 4x4s of the day. It's probably closest to a Nash Quad, with it's spur gear drive and LS differentials, but it has lower gearing to make it more capable and stronger components. It has the better Wisconsin engine from the FWD Model B and , as far as I can tell, the same type of transmission and transfer case (if not the same). The general appearance and layout is similar to the French Latil. Anyway, just wanting to bring up a make I haven't seen discussed here yet.

FWD was smart. When everyone else was struggling to build and sell new trucks, they were buying back the surplus army trucks to modernize and refurbish them. I also have one of these catalogs and it's fascinating reading. FWD had some stupid moments too. The Nash Quad might never have come to be had not FWD dug in it's heels and refused to make changes to the Model B to standardize it for military use. Ditto the Militor.

Hi All! No actual iron, Tim, but I have a filing cabinet full of photos, research and literature and the privilege of having driven or touched some of the earliest stuff. And here I go raising cain in one of my earliest posts.... Sorry, but the the Spyker wasn't the first 4x4 vehicle. It certainly was the first with the drivetrain layout that became the standard, and still is until today, but I can think of several four-wheel drives that preceded it. The Brits get first dibs on that, with the 1824 Burstall & Hill steam coach. Yes, that's eighteen-twenty-four. There was the 1899-1907 Twyford and the 1900-1903 Cotta "Cottamobile." You could argue about the 1900 Lohner-Porsche. I'm not partisan about these things, just relaying the facts. I would love to see the Spyker up close. Especially the front axle. Would like to see how much resemblance Otto Zachow and Bill Besserdich's steerable front axle in the 1908 prototype has to it. That first steam powered car, with an engine change and a body, would become the legendary Four Wheel Drive Auto Company's "Battleship,"one of the cars I have had the privilege of driving (along with the Nancy Hank). I look forward to conversing with a group of like-minded "spurgear-heads!" Right now, I am researching the Militor, the short-lived, low production US Army standardized truck developed at the end of WWI and used for a few years after.

Hello from Northwest Ohio, USA. While I am interested in all HMVs, I am most interested in WWI era vehicles and before. Most focused on the history and origins of four-wheel drive in all its forms. This forum has a particularly good Pre-WW2 forum and I am ashamed it took me this long to find it!