steveo578

The way the media was talking it up last autumn I would have expected it to be sitting on the dock at Lowesoft by now;). The article is a bit iffy too -can't see how anyone can really be convinced that DO 17 were anything but a bomber the idea that it was "designed" in 1934 as a passenger plane is a bit of a stretch. It is supposed to have started life in 1932 as a mail plane for Lufthansa and high value cargo carrier for German railways -but as early as 1933 Herman Goeing had given the game away by describing it as a cargo carrier for "special cargos" -ie bombs. It was common place for pre 3rd Riech military expenditure and weapons systems to be disguised for civil uses for example the prototype Panzer 1 was known as LAS -agricultural tractor. The DO17 is often refered to as a passenger plane supposedly carrying 6 passengers -for the original design this would have been very cramped -the original service type used in the Spanish Civil War was too cramped for its normal 3 man crew and required modification to the crew compartment which had the canopy roof raised and floor deeped. It would be good if it was recovered however- does anyone have any photos of the remains of the similar DO215 that was recovered in 2007.

Don't know the film, The "A7V" is a mock up and not a particular good one -the ends are wider that the centre section where the drivers/commanders station is located. MkVs were still a viable tank at the time (1927) in fact the War Office were still considering alternative uses for them -RE tanks and ARVs were considered and France still had some as front line tanks, one of the Baltic States had one or two. Oddly enough a very good "mock up" A7V was displayed in a German exhibition in the late 1920s early 1930s -it is good enough to speculate that it is not a mock up -that one had survived the disarmament commision axe.

Normally a medical syndrome particularly those relating to deminished mental capacity are eponymous to the researcher/doctor who first defined the condition and not named for the person suffering from the problem. So the condition defined as excessive euphoria and out of control spending on rusty AFVs should perhaps be called Wedlock's syndrome -on the other hand as Rick also seems to be suffering from the condition perhaps I should name it -giving it the mandatory cute east-european name -I think Stefan's syndrome might be better:-D:cool2:.

I look forward to seeing them and will be astounded:shocked: if some-one has a Mk5 or Mk8 Churchill squirreled away:-D.

I think the support tank refered to is a 75mm gun tank and probably being RE and therefore connected to the wartime 79th AD it will be a Mk7 Crocodile, well maybe:undecided: perhaps Tim may be able to clarify. 95mm howitzer tanks are rare either Mk5 or Mk8 -there are 2 Mk8s in Australia-one re-armed with a 3inch howitzer -I don't think any Mk5 in Oz I think they were converted to AVRE (aust) when the main batch of Mk7 and Mk8 arrived. As to a wreck in the UK one of the Sennybridge Churchills was a late production type with the universal turret -but had lost its armament so could have been any type (Mk4 6pdr/Mk5, Mk5 95mm, Mk6 75mm) I don't have any photos of this tank to hand but it features in Mr Churchills Tank page 193 captioned as a Mk4 and also a really good photo in After the Battle magazine in an article on Sennybridge range, however this tank was drawn down to the Pract A/T range after the Comet and Sherman V were broken up and as much as I'm aware it too has gone the same way probably replaced by a Chieftain. The nearest to a Mk5 preserved in UK is the North Irish Horse memorial -ex Eire Army Mk6 with re-enforced hull -and even that could be a returreted remanufactured tank with a universal turret.

. Bit cruel :undecided: surely the hull is Mk6, the turret is Centaur so he is in a cleft stick -the Centaur turret wouldn't be quite right with a 95mm gun howitzer etc.etc... Steve

Yes Rick the skill and effort;) -not too mention expense, so we won't mention it:whistle: necessary to make all those beautiful Charlie G an LAW impact holes in your Churchill are almost impossible to reproduce these days:D

A jeep:???:??? Of course some people think anything green with tracks is a tank:)

I'm a confused which museum you are refereing to:confused: I assume it's the RE Museum -is that correct, The Bovington Mk4 AVRE shown here which mounted the "Fury" turret had certainly gone by 1979 I can't remember it being around when I was there in the early 1970s either but could have been in the "reserve" compound -why it was broken up is unclear to me possibly the offside was incomplete and sectioned like the turret -but it seems a bit much to dispose of it, but then stranger things happened. The Bovington Mk3 Petard AVRE was only located in 1985 and recovered so it is unlikely that "Fury" was cut up for parts for that restoration -however various other churchills surrendered parts for the restoration including parts from the white Mk7 AVRE (post war version). I think Bob Grundy might be able to confirm whether any components from the erstwhile Fury were used in the Mk3 restoration. Incidently there is a possiblity that the Bovington Mk3 AVRE was named Firefly so possibly both tanks were part of the same squadron or unit/wing. what is a support gun tank :confused: if by that is mean't a Mk4 gun tank(obviously a Mk7 gun tank wouldn't be suitable) it would be a bit OTT to convert it into a Petard tank as there is a number extant including the bovington runner whereas the number of gun tank Churchills other than Mk7 is fairly small especially considering the various marks. Of course this could change in the furture as various projects are completed when ever that may be. :undecided:

Hi Rick Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours R35 tank:D if things continue as they are at the moment probably everything in Damascus will be amenable to a bribe as the present regimes liquidate their assets into something more movable. Quite a find Pzkpfw-e -some of the stuff for example the Panhard 178B:wow: is very rare indeed:laugh:

UK doors used to be an average 2030 x 815mm or 80 x 32inches for those educated before 1-1-1970. Often in modern mass market british housing doors are now 1980 x 760mm 78 x 30inches so how tall are you then:???

yes I think you're right i am mistaking the ejection port extension for a box mag. slot. A philosopical question of weapon ID - how many weapon IDs can be balanced on the head of a Bren firing pin:-D?

Hi Tony Problem is both Chatellerault mle 24/29 and Hotchkiss mle 1922 have top mounted mags and the Mittraileuse de char mle1931 had a side mounted mag as does the other suspect - the Darne mle 1922 and the weapon shown has a box mag. loading from beneath. I think it could be a Polish BAR with a extemporised butt made from a Mg13 or Mg15 butt or possibly an 8mm MG 107(f) -which was a Lewis gun derivative used by the French Air force as Fusil mitraileur Lewis mle 1924 -which was fitted with a underslung box mag and of course could have been modified to replace an aerial spade grip with a MG15 style butt. Steve

Yes a Tulsa model 18G BTW it should be in the Wanted Ad part of the forum

I think Tony covers most of it apart for the bazaar Machine gun stockpiled -looks like a BAR with a mdified butt and grip The Churchill video was quite nice, The tank number seems to be T68682/B and the location again I think is Birmingham Railway Carriage Co (Valentines in the background) although that tank was part of the Newton Chambers contract T753 that's not uncommon Churchills were often rebuilt several times. The testing area seems to be Vauxhall especially as the Mk8 Churchill crossing the bridge is T173142/H originally a Mk7 returreted as a Mk8 and retained by Vauxhall for tests.

Certainly a good analysis of the Battle for Crete and for the most part accurate- only gripe is that the quality of the attacking force was far higher than the defending force of which even the the so called commando force "Leyforce" was mostly "army commando" used again at normandy were mainly converted from reserve batalions and could not in anyway be calssed as a Ist class unit -as is normally perceived in the term commando, (read Evelyn Waugh's sword of honour trilogy which gives a fictionilised account of the Leyforce defence -it is available as a fairly good TV drama series from the late 1980s- although emphasis toward the Brideshead Revisited IMO.:undecided: Anyhow good stuff:-D

As tony has already infered -momentary lack of attention :red: , assuming it is this one - the Cove Junction near aberdeen, obviously failed to keep left:(

Hi Tony Don't want to be nit picking but section 24 pace covers powers of warrented police officers and sect.24A covers what is commonly known as citizen powers of arrest. ( I should have used the forum name Criten:-D) Community support officers do not have the attested powers of arrest that a police officer or even a special constable have. The additional powers that CSOs do have, which are fairly extensive, are only pertinant when they are on duty and in uniform. Their additional powers include prevention of a breach of the peace ( prevention meaning to stop it before it starts -as opposed to sect 24A which gives citizen powers to stop a breach of the peace when it is occuring), to confiscate alochol, drugs and even seize motor vehicles being used to cause distress and annoyance (so don't upset one if you're in your MV:cool2:) and a host of other powers at the pleasure of the Commisioner or Chief Officer. If used as the 2002 Act had intended CSO would have been an benefit to the public good but for various reasons -mostly with the best intent Chief Officers have never really used CSOs to best effect. They were certainly never intended to replace warrented Police Officers "on the beat" and there is still a legal requirement for a sufficient, minimum number of officers to be available in any command area. Steve

Dunno if that "us" is society in general or as a benefit to law enforement, but as Neil (ArtistsRifles) said it's the and Pzkfw-e point of that makes people regard particularly these high visiblity multi-agency "hanging around the laybye" operations with a level of suspicion or derision. It is interesting cross references this thread with "Unwelcome visitors" on this sub forum, that Police in outer london are incapable of making observations on at risk public property or are singularly unwilling to use ANPR system to clamp down on unregistered "traveller" scrap men. I personally have no problem with correct enforcement of the law -I have a problem if the regulations often enforced improperly by warrent holding but poorly trained civilians in the so called agencies. I have been "pulled over" by police as the ANPR system mis read my very standard number plate -as I stepped out of the car the officer was doing a manual vehicle check -result was a rapid sqawk of "all clear insured and taxed -do not detain" not the officers fault a regular equipment problem, which is fine unless the stopped person has a chip on his shoulder, then it becomes an incident or a complaint note in a service jacket.

We've had them on the A69 and supporting roads since 2004. Probably percieved to be a high evasion area - they sent one of the first £80 none compliance fines to me during the work up phase of that scheme -I asked them to take me to court and sent them an A4 copy of my tax disc -asking if they would like to "do me" for copying the tax disc too -I asked for an £80 payment is compensation but I'm still waiting - they reckon like all government department that an apology is sufficient :mad:

Thanks for posting the documents on goodwood - i'm sure you'll have photos i've never seen! Those DD photos were new to me:-) and I spent a week at the bovy library researching the technicalities of Sherman DDs Steve

Yes I find tha apauling too, I may sound old but I'm old enough to remember when Robert Mark was Comisioner of the Met. and his attitude could be judged by his recruitment advert -"the purpose of the the police is to protect the individual from society and society from the individual" I assume the Metropolitan Police covers Dagenham. As a general rule the "Broken Windows" theory of zero tolerance policing of low level crime is valid, as delivered by NYPD commisoner William J. Bratton in 1994 to 1996 in New York and later but less successfully in L-A. should be normal practice. I really don't think all British police forces have taken this on board as there seems to be an attitude amongst some- possibly a majority - of junior officers that minor crime is not what they are there for -tended to be re-enforced by the use of relatively untrained CSO and wardens in the last 10 years, unfortunatly junior/ probationary officers are rarely going to thwart serious crime -such as terrorism. 30 years ago it was calculated that without the full support of the public the chances of locating a serious on going crime (at that time burgulary was the example) was twice in an average 20 year career:shocked: which should mean that a pattern of crime such as large buildings being stripped of lead -should be adequately pursued. I have say that up here in the sticks for the most part Northumbria Police are pretty good at dealing with the lower level of crime -for example on monday a post grad. student I know was mugged and his 'phone taken -result his 3 assailants were in custody within 2 hours and property recovered intact:-D but no doubt without a successful ID the muggers will claim they found the 'phone and then the lawyers will drop the case. But as everyone has implied something needs to be done or we're all ******

That looks like the turret previously marked "fury" that was at Bovington for sometime -while not in good condition it is almost complete -apart for the sectioned hole -alot better than most.

Hi Rick they probably were cut up 5 years ago.:-( Steve

most likely settling scores within there own "community" but police must be seen to be even handed and investigate:-). with regard to traditional rag & bone men - I remember a motorway patrol officer spotting a rag and bone man with horse and cart plodding along a backlane so the officer recognising him as some-one he had "dealings with" before -got off the main road and "did him" for some nebulous offence with regard to animal welfare:laugh: I always wondered what the home office monthly report said with regard to that process and whether the civil servants thought they got value for money.