BenHawkins

Thanks for the kind comments about this project. Looking at your lovely photo of KT665 it is a very similar age of lorry and could either be identical to mine or possibly the 30cwt version. The three ton did not have the offset in the front axle (outboard of the springs) so the chassis was a few inches higher up. Coincidentally I have been building a machine on this slightly lighter road rail trailer recently so the concept is not completely dead. The two ton lorry was fitted with 720mm wheels for 100mm wide tyres. I have include a PDF of the tyres to show the dimensions. Twin tyres were fitted to the rear. The chassis is made from 4" channel for the main rails, parallel along their length; back at the start of this project you will be able to see photos; the outside faces of the channel are 37-3/4" apart. There is a channel front cross member and a tubular member at the rear. An additional 3" channel frame is suspended below the main chassis to carry the engine and gearbox; this is pivoted at the front. It is 11'4" wheelbase and 5' track, the chassis overhang at the back was adjusted to suit the body style. Mine is shorter than typical at 15'6"; this does have certain advantages as far as garaging is concerned! I guess you don't need much space to get to two tons when you load with fruit and vegetables. What software do you use for your 3D CAD? I might be able to provide STEP files for some of the components, for example it should have this type of White and Poppe cylinder block (rather than the pair cast Aster I have fitted as the nearest equivalent). I would love to see your finished model. tyre.pdf

Steering column detail showing worm and nut steering box. A selection of parts. Many of these I have, but it is good to have detail of the front cross member. Bonnet rest etc. And finally the radiator, this appears to show that I have the correct radiator. Although pretty good this parts book still appears to miss quite a few parts such as the exhaust silencer. Period literature described the T4 as a "J type in miniature"; although this might be true for the chassis construction there are many differences in the rest of the vehicle. At least we have a better idea of what all the missing parts should look like and therefore stand a chance of identifying them.

Front Axle. At least I have most of these parts. I think this shape of axle cap (Part number 55312) is only seen on the T4 Thornycroft. The back axle built up in three layers is another feature that seems unique to the T4. A sliding block rear universal joint is used. I am missing this but as it is similar to the one I made on the 1914 Dennis at least I have had some practice. Brake drums and blocks.

Gearbox. The N/S and O/S gearbox mountings look identical in the photo but have different part numbers. And quite a few parts to go inside the gearbox. Footbrake components And some of the parts on the outside of the gearbox

And for me, this is where is gets most interesting. Parts diagram showing the cylinder block with fixed head and inlet over exhaust valve arrangement. Crankshaft, camshaft, oil pump etc. Oil pipes, magneto couplings etc. Flywheel, clutch etc. This does not show the fan blades on the flywheel (visible on earlier photo).

Flywheel, clutch and universal joints. Gearbox, steering gear and brakes. Care of the back axle Side view of chassis

Some good pictures of the T4 engine; perhaps somebody has one in their shed. Further information on the engine and some good views of the crankcase. A little information on fault finding A good view of the steering column detail, fuel tank and oil indicator.

Now you can just switch headlights on it is easy to overlook how important lighting up tables must have been. Owners are advised to arrange for a vehicle to have regular periods in the shed. Some more driving instructions

Although I have not done particularly well at finding parts for this project I have just managed to find one of the instruction manuals for "T" Type as described in the Thornycroft Monthly Circular. Page 1 would have given the revision date. It is unfortunately missing but is probably one of the least useful pages in the book. Page 3 gives the chassis dimensions and maximum permitted body dimensions. Examples of the three lighter weight chassis are given on page 4&5 And one of CP&Co BT vans is shown on page 6. It always seems to be the same picture of van 250 that appears in the adverts.

I don't believe they are. I didn't even know they existed until we found some on the shelf in the archive.

There was a lubrication diagram. The monthly circular also confirms there was an instruction book and a copy sent to all agents and with every chassis so I should continue to look out for one. Further references confirmed that the T4 engine was also used in large numbers for marine and generator applications.

Another really useful document in the archive was the Thornycroft monthly circular (staff magazine). Here is a better photo of one of the BT chassis for CP&Co And in the background a CP&Co on it's way to war service. The magazine is full of information and gives details that explain one of the holes in the chassis is for the odometer and drive (which is then obvious in the first photo).

During our holiday we spent a day in Winchester looking through the Thornycroft records (the glamorous assistant is very good to me). I thought this table of valve settings might help a few people out so have included it here. Here is a general arrangement drawing of the T4 engine I need for this project (just in case somebody has one under their bench and does not know what it is). And another drawing showing the magneto cabling arrangements. The switch was mounted in the centre of the dash, just below the oil flow indicator (has anyone got a photo showing the detail of these?). There were also drawings of all the gaskets and various other minor parts but we did not find any drawings of the more major components (pistons, cylinders, crank, crankcase etc.)

Thanks Richard, I had seen that and purchased a copy of the catalogue for the generators. At Beaulieu I purchased an Austin pressure gauge to go with the generating set. And a photo of a nice pair of Thornycrofts belonging to J Cooke and Sons (actually I negotiated for this photo to come free with some lamps purchased for my Singer).

Owen, thanks for your thoughts on the ways to prevent the inlet manifold frosting up. In addition to the frost on the outside of the inlet manifold I have had the pedal stick down under the same conditions. I think frost is forming on the inside of the throttle barrel as well. As the carburettor has the passages for water heating it seems like the most sensible first step and of course needs taps to isolate and drain. I run with glycol coolant so hopefully should not risk frost damage to the carburettor body. Yesterday we went for a drive to the local Canal festival. We took a route with plenty of canal bridges which was a good chance to practice my gear changes. We had some excellent company at the festival and plenty of people to chat to in some glorious weather. We loaded up some fruit crates and potato sacks for the trip but I still have to work out how they should be secured. There are no rope hooks visible in either the factory photos or the in service photo. One of the final outstanding items is the tarpaulin for the back. I have put this off as I cannot decide on the colour. Suggestions welcome. There is a slight repair required to the horn after some over-enthusiastic honking by some younger members of the public.

It has been a pleasure to share the project with others. It was useful to see how other people had approached their projects and the help and advice has been invaluable. We have been working through the finishing touches whilst working on other projects. Shortly before the wedding I managed to purchase a bar end of brass just big enough to machine two new king pin covers. I had previously fitted slightly larger (rusty) ones so I could get the lorry on the road. A conclusion from the wedding driving was that there was probably not enough height difference between the carburettor and the petrol tank. The petrol tank is under the seat so around four feet behind the carburettor; the Aster engine was originally fitted to a generator so does not have a heated inlet manifold (as would often be fitted to a lorry of this period) and therefore the carburettor sits quite high. The gradient between the top of the main jet and the bottom of the tank was only around 1:6 so I decided I needed to move the carburettor down. In order to move the carburettor down it also has to move sideways to clear the crankcase flange. I chose to make it 2" long with an offset of 1/4" so I scribed the lines onto a billet of aluminium and roughed it out to size. I tilted the head on my milling machine and used a boring head to open the hole out to size. This has definitely improved hill performance but it will still not quite manage the 1:6 canal bridge on my test route (but the brakes have no problem holding it there) The manifold and carburettor get very cold when running. It was around 15C when I took it for the test drive but frost was forming on the new aluminium adaptor. On the above photo you can see a boss pointing away from the engine; this is to allow for connecting the carburettor to the cooling system. I need to plumb this in to keep the carburettor warm but I am not sure if I will get a performance boost.

We have just spent a few days in the Cotswolds which included providing transport for the wedding of some good friends. Getting the bride to the church on time adds a little stress to the drive. But after that trip went so well it was much less concerning to make it to the village social club. The cab, doors and windscreen provided ample weather protection as described in the original sales catalogue (40mph winds and rain). Back to the venue where the sun came out for the photos. The hill performance is slowly improving (and probably my driving also), but there is probably some more tuning to be done.

Dimensional drawing of the T4 engine I need to find.

I only found this drawing after Steve had problems with his. 1920 piston design for M type engines All the old cast iron piston drawings I have seen show the top of the piston a few thousandths smaller to allow for the thermal expansion.

I think the valve caps have been removed at some point and replaced at random. Period literature suggests there should be dual ignition on a 1908 Singer but there is no magneto bracket in the kit of parts. The reliability was certainly a good reason for two ignition systems. It is possible this chassis started life as a taxi. I can see for that type of work that the trembler coil ignition would be quite useful; when waiting for your passenger you can turn both ignition systems off and stop the engine. When you are ready to go it should be possible to switch on the trembler coil; if the engine still has a charge of fuel in the cylinder it will usually start without the need to get out and crank. Switching to magneto then conserves your battery charge. Having put some light oil in each of the bores last night it was possible this afternoon to rotate the flywheel several degrees. I will not turn it any more until I have taken the sump and/or cylinder blocks off.

We had a trip out to East Yorkshire today and collected this 1908 Singer. It is believed to have been converted to a lorry for war work in Aberdeenshire during WWI but we only have documentation going back to 1945 when it entered preservation. I would be interested if anyone could confirm what vehicles like this were used for. A few things were borrowed from it over the years to keep the 1907 Singer car going but most of them have been returned. All the metal work was given a coat of red lead paint and this (along with dry storage) had kept it in remarkably good condition. The mudguards will need quite a lot of welding and reshaping but I am keen to get them serviceable. Mechanically it is almost complete. The engine is an 80x90 four cylinder White and Poppe; this is missing both the ignition systems (trembler and magneto), the fan and the water pipes. The water pump is in a box and requires some repairs and one valve and tappet parts are missing. It is unsurprising that the engine (probably not run for nearly 100 years) is seized but seems to be in reasonable order. I have put a little oil in each bore; hopefully it will make getting the pistons out easier when we get that far. The clutch springs are in a box but the studs probably need replacing. The casting that carries the pedals is broken; it may be repairable. The bronze blocks are missing from the universal joint. The gear selection mechanism is loose but the gears look to be in extremely good order. Some new shackle pins will certainly be needed for the rear suspension but over all I am amazed by how good the condition is.

It has been a good week for the purchasing department. There were a couple of good purchases from eBay including a job lot of Rotherham's of Coventry parts and we found quite a lot at Beaulieu autojumble. There is at least one item for each of the vehicles and quite a lot for stock. The Dennis car hub cap is just for the display case (not quite enough to start a project, yet).

I don't think there was any requirement for headlamps to start with . This one left the factory with only sidelamp brackets but had a headlamp added by the original owner, I don't think my 1908 Dennis ever had any fitted. Period photos often show a single headlamp on early vehicles but most surviving vehicles have now been upgraded to two. Did the subsidy specification require two headlamps? Thanks for all the positive comments!

I booked Friday afternoon off work and went for a drive to the nearest weigh bridge. It is only one and a half miles from home but gave us the opportunity to try another couple of short moderately steep hills (in the form of canal bridges). The bridges are not steep enough for gradient marker signs but we are gaining confidence to take it further afield. If does go better in warm weather; I don't know if that is just the oil being thinner in the transmission and wheel bearings. Anyway, the result was a total mass of 2580kg. 1100kg on the front axle and 1480kg on the hind axle. The petrol tank was half full and there was a supply of oil and tools. Technically it would just go on a car transporter trailer but a serious tow car would be needed.

As mentioned on another thread we are preparing for future projects. There were a few hours spare this afternoon so we got the paint stripper out and started to clean the green paint off the valve caps and distributor drive. Under the green was red paint from its past life in a Liverpool salvage tender.